SANTA'S WISH LIST .....2023 VERSION

[Ralph Damren]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.

(2) Any colored towels = OK

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.

(12) Legalize hurdling.

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.

(16) AFD if USC by B.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.

Please let me know your opinions. Thank you 

 

[Rob S]

So a lot of college rule adoptions - I generally support. Some thoughts:

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
  Is this by team or player? By player would be impossible to track (or really slow game). By team we're going to be tossing a lot of coaches.

(2) Any colored towels = OK
  Sure - honestly its not enforced well anyways (especially with some pink towels in October)

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.
   What would be added?

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.
   I like this

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
   No big difference - I see a lot more incompletes stopping the clock than runs OOB. Poor passing teams run up game times more than anything. But I'd have no complaints if we did it.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
   Indifferent - would like consistency with other levels, but also not really a problem needing fixed from what I see.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
   Sure

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
   Indifferent

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.
   Indifferent, just doesn't happen often enough to worry about

(10) IG only LOD at spot.
   Not really a fan, but if QBs learned it might help with safety to avoid QB hits

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
   No - seems like more risk for injury

(12) Legalize hurdling.
   No - wrong way for safety for sure

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.
   Not sure what this entails. If it's better definition/examples, sure.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
   Rare call, but I support

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.
   No more LODs - AFD, I could live with

(16) AFD if USC by B.
   I support. I'd rather have non-football acts convert from PF to UNS like college, but this at least punishes one team more for UNS.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
    Finally figured this out - I support being able to tell coaches they need to be out of the box sooner. "Snap is eminent" is pretty vague.

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
    I like this, to me seems more fair all around

[AlUpstateNY]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.

(2) Any colored towels = OK

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.

(12) Legalize hurdling.

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.

(16) AFD if USC by B.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.

Disagree:1, 2, 7, 11, 12, 15, 16,
Agree: 4, 5, 8, 9, 14, 16. 17
Possible(with clarification): 3, 10, 13.

#1 suggest making 1st warning MANDATORY part of "Pre Game Conference with each HC.
#2 never underestimate the creativity of the American teenager (of NFHS Head Coach)
#11 Consider Forward Progress ENDED when "Pushing the Pile" begins.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks, Rob & Al, for your responses.
Rob- I agree with you on #1, tracking this would be a challange.
Al- You both agreed & disagreed with #16, I assume one was for 18.
I agree with both of you on pushing the pile and hurdling not being allowed for safety. We had an interp this fall in Maine that once pushing the pile started, forward progress had stopped. The coaches were well advised of it and the season went smoothly.

[bossman72]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
No, because then people will REALLY never call it.
(2) Any colored towels = OK
Sure
(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.
Not sure what this is about.  I think everything that's illegal now is fine.
(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.
Yes definitely.  Then maybe we can get rid of that stupid IP rule about being OOB and "otherwise participating".
(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
I'm all for quicker games.  lol.
(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
Is this a problem?  I'm ok with it if we need to.
(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
Eh, do we need it?  I'm ok if we change it.
(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
Yeah that's probably for the best.
(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.
I'm good with that, but do we need to change it?
(10) IG only LOD at spot.
No, 5 yards is fine and no need to make an exception.
(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
I'm good with that because we never call it.  Pulling/lifting would still be illegal.
(12) Legalize hurdling.
No, keep it illegal.
(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.
No, it's fine the way it is.
(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
Yes definitely.  This is poorly codified in the current rules and this would be great for clarification.
(15) AFD/LOD if PF.
No if LOD is mandated to be married with it.
(16) AFD if USC by B.
I'm fine with no automatic first downs, honestly.
(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
I'm not sure what this means.  Is this Maine slang?  lol.
(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
I think so.  I had the proposal where the run ends behind makes the basic spot the previous spot.  Offensive fouls would still be spot fouls.

[HLinNC]

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
Difficult to track, would slow the game down
(2) Any colored towels = OK
All but yes.
(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.
If they mean define more specific examples, sure
(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.
As long it is along the lines of "a player who has gone out of bounds is not considered in bounds until his/her body has totally returned within the field of play or end zone(s)" ]
(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
Sure
(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
See no need
(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
Nah, if he throws an IFP, flag it.  Otherwise leave it be.
(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
I see no need.  Passer is fine.  It hasn't come up otherwise."
(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.
Not sure how I feel on this one.
(10) IG only LOD at spot.
Sure.  That's been my biggest mistake as a new WH, enforcing from previous spot.
(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
First we would have to define what a pile is and so forth.  Nah.
(12) Legalize hurdling.
I thought the Fed was about safety?
(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.
Perhaps they ought to put some recommended language out on that one.
(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
The definitions under IUH or Personal Foul already cover this.  No
(15) AFD/LOD if PF.
Most PF's tend to be dead balls where the down has counted anyway. No
(16) AFD if USC by B.
Another exception by those who claim not to like exceptions.  No
(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
With the :40, there is no audible signal for the RFP.  Coaches are not looking for the ball down and U moving away.  No
(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
Bye bye ABO.  Just swapping another exception to an exception.

[GA Umpire]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq. 

(2) Any colored towels = OK

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.

(12) Legalize hurdling.

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.

(16) AFD if USC by B.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.

Please let me know your opinions. Thank you 

 

1.  Present Rule is sufficient as the rule is rarely enforced.
2.  Please.  That is the way it is enforced now.  See #1.
3. 
4.  OK
5.  OK 
6.  NO!
7.  No.  Have not seen abuse of the present rule.
8.  OK
9.  OK
10. OK
11. OK. That is the way it is called now.
12. NO!
13. As already asked, how?
14. OK
15. OK
16. OK
17. OK
18. NO!  The present rule (ABO) is easier.

[Ralph Damren]

Yo, Bossman, thanks for your replies. #13 would be a foul if a D-back did more than play the ball or wrap-up tackle the reciever. We've added the  blindside block and targeting as fouls in our game without any noted change. I've proposed your suggestion that we've tried before that treats fouls by B that occur when the run ends behind the LOS as previous spot fouls. It may pass incoperated with fouls by A behind the LOS as previous spot also.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks, GA Umpire & HLinNC, for your rsponses. To provide 'one limers' for each proposal  is sometimes a challange ,as to #13. The concern is that recievers are still being lit-up by d-backs as the pass arrives. This would allow only a wrap-up tackle for contact.

PS: We Mainers call the Restricted Area the 'moat' in memory of the moats that used to surround medieval castles. Moats we often filled with 'gaters,crocs' and the like, keeping bad knights away. Coaches moat can be filled with  penalty flags to keep wandering coaches away.

[HLinNC]

#13- ok, got it now Ralph.  That detail helps.  I would agree that DB's are still intent on "separating the receiver from the ball" as our defensive minded friends would tell us.  They are going to argue back that puts the DB into a choice of trying to knock down the pass or make a tackle.

I'd be in favor of it but I foresee opposition.

[NVFOA_Ump]

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
     My preference - simply invite player to leave the field until problem addressed
(2) Any colored towels = OK
      OK
(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.
      Don't see real need
(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.
      Yes
(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
      OK but not much impact
(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
       Yes, "planned" late subs are an issue
(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
       Yes
(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
      Yes
(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.
      Yes
(10) IG only LOD at spot.
        Yes
(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
       No
(12) Legalize hurdling.
       No
(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.
        Could be improved
(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
        Yes, so we can call it what it is
(15) AFD/LOD if PF.
        No
(16) AFD if USC by B.
        No
(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
        Yes
(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
        No, I prefer the current rule or alternately make it Previous Spot but w/LOD

[refjeff]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.

KISS  Stop the clock.  Send them out.  Let the coach handle it.

(2) Any colored towels = OK

No thank you. 

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.

Sure.  Speed it up.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.

No.  1. Play defense with who you have on the filed.  2.  We don't have the extra eyes needed to track every offensive substitution.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.

I understand why, but this is so rare.  KISS

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.

Yes, if that is the same as other levels

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.

No, leave it alone.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.

It's legal by interpretation in our state now.  Assisting the runner should be called a lot more though.

(12) Legalize hurdling.

Is it no longer a safety concern?

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

Not needed with BSB & UNR.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.

As long as the ruling includes a forceful push not just touching.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.

Not needed & not equitable.

(16) AFD if USC by B.

Not needed & not equitable.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP

There is no RFP signal on most plays and on many plays coaches are still calling the next play when the ball is spotted..

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.

So if the runner is tackled by the face mask 5 yds. behind the LOS it becomes a 20 yd. penalty?  No thank you.

[bossman72]

Yo, Bossman, thanks for your replies. #13 would be a foul if a D-back did more than play the ball or wrap-up tackle the reciever. We've added the  blindside block and targeting as fouls in our game without any noted change. I've proposed your suggestion that we've tried before that treats fouls by B that occur when the run ends behind the LOS as previous spot fouls. It may pass incoperated with fouls by A behind the LOS as previous spot also.

Ok, thanks for clarification on #13.  I don't think we should add a UNR to hitting a receiver from the blindside.  I think they are protected enough with the UNR, targeting, and blindside block rules.  We shouldn't try to legislate out all hard hits in the game.  It's impossible.  I think adding more to this rule will create many extra, unnecessary personal fouls and would likely not be uniformly enforced.  I can see this causing more confusion than the years where we added defenseless player definition with no penalty or rule associated to it.

[dammitbobby]

I'm obviously not NFHS, but I fully agree with bossman's reasoning on 13, and in facebook officiating groups, there are a great deal of NFHS officials who mistakenly believe this rule is already in place, from the number number of video posts and comments.

[HLTN]

1. Get rid of 5 yard face mask.
2. Fouls by A behind LOS enforced from previous spot.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks for imput, Jeff, Bobby,Ump and HLTN. Removing the 5 yard FM isn't on the docket. Fouls by A behind the LOS and fouls by B when run ends behind the LOS is on the docket with a strong probably of passing. IMHO.

[SCHSref]

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
I can ,live with this as long as it is equally enforced by all officials on the field and consistently throughout the year

(2) Any colored towels = OK
No. No yellow towels

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
Too much to keep up with in a 5 man crew

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
WE don't have someone dedicated to that and if we did, the U would have to be quick to do this. Extremely difficult to faciliate in 5 man crew

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
NO

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
I like it

(10) IG only LOD at spot.
Sure

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
This is currently done anyway with no calls. The rule is helping the runner with his initial charge

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
We already call this as a PF in my state


(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
YES YES YES...but there will be a huge learning curve...this is a safety issue

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
I'd be good either way

[AlUpstateNY]

Thanks for imput, Jeff, Bobby,Ump and HLTN. Removing the 5 yard FM isn't on the docket. Fouls by A behind the LOS and fouls by B when run ends behind the LOS is on the docket with a strong probably of passing. IMHO.

Thinking about "motivation/encouragement" what would motivate an Offence blocker NOT to foul, if fouls committed deeper into the offensive backfield were enforced from the previous spot?  The consequence for fouling, further behind the line (when the defense is successfully causing retreat) is depriving the defense of successfully doing their job, and ENCOURAGING fouling.

5 yards and LOD is a misdemeanor, rather than 5, 10, 15, 20 yd loss FELONY (unless you're not caught).

[refjeff]

Thinking about "motivation/encouragement" what would motivate an Offence blocker NOT to foul, if fouls committed deeper into the offensive backfield were enforced from the previous spot?  The consequence for fouling, further behind the line (when the defense is successfully causing retreat) is depriving the defense of successfully doing their job, and ENCOURAGING fouling.

5 yards and LOD is a misdemeanor, rather than 5, 10, 15, 20 yd loss FELONY (unless you're not caught).

No it's not.

[AlUpstateNY]

No it's not.

OK, what would you call minimizing/eliminating ADDITIONAL consequences for specific fouls?

[Rich]

Santa has plenty of gifts (new rules proposals) for the upcoming year. I value your opinions and would enjoy hearing from them.

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.

No.  My God, no. I like the rule change that just went in here.  Send them off.

(2) Any colored towels = OK

Except flag and football colored, of course.

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

Not sure what this means.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.

Yes.

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.

Yes, please. This is easy to manage - wing stops clock, R starts it.  No different than a first down.

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.

Going to be hard to handle in 5-official crews. We already have the B doing the play clock, so a wing would likely have to signal the R here. I'd vote no.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.

Yes, and also run the clock here as it provides an advantage, potentially, to the offense.

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.

Solution in search of a problem.

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

Solution in search of a problem.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.

Difference between a 5 yard penalty and only LOD is minor.  Either is fine.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.

I don't see why not - it's already hard to get this called if a player isn't obviously pushing directly into the runner's back.

(12) Legalize hurdling.

No. A good safety rule that doesn't need to be altered.

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

Current definitions are fine.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.

Yes, please. If not, please specifically consider a hands to the face penalty anyway, even if the yardage doesn't change.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.

(16) AFD if USC by B.

Yes to the AFD, but no to LOD.  There's no reason these two provisions have to balance. A 15 yard penalty against the offense is a drive killer as it is.

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.

Yes. I don't get why any official would think this would encourage more fouling. This assumes that kids actually do more than just play and try to block, which I don't believe.

[bama_stripes]

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.  No.  Current rule is sufficient.

(2) Any colored towels = OK.  Yes

(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.

(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.  YES, YES, YES!

(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.  Yes

(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.  NO! This would be a nightmare in a 5-man crew.

(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.  No

(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.  Yes

(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.

(10) IG only LOD at spot.  No.

(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'. No.

(12) Legalize hurdling.  NO. Safety rule.

(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.

(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.  No. Already a PF.

(15) AFD/LOD if PF.  No

(16) AFD if USC by B.  No

(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP.  No

(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS. YES YES YES

[refjeff]

OK, what would you call minimizing/eliminating ADDITIONAL consequences for specific fouls?

Fair and reasonable.

[riffraft]

(1) Failure to wear proper equipment = 1st, warning > 2nd  = 5 yards > 3rd = 15 yards USC > 4th & more = 15 yards USC + Disq.
too hard to track
(2) Any colored towels = OK
Sure
(3) Expand list of illegal equipment.
No thanks
(4) Leaping OOB player is still OOB until landing IB.
Would clear up an issue
(5) Clock starts on RFP after OOB unless under 2 min. in half.
Would rather have clock starts on the ready after an incomplete pass
(6) If K/A subs, R/B can sub prior to snap.
Doesn't seem to be an issue that I've seen
(7) Forward fumble > OOB > spot of fumble.
In my years haven't seen it as an issue
(8) Only the player that takes snap can legal IG.
Yes
(9) After ball goes beyond LOS, can't have forward pass.
Solution looking for a problem
(10) IG only LOD at spot.
sure
(11) Legalize 'pushing the pile'.
Not being called anyway
(12) Legalize hurdling.
No, player's safety
(13) Strengthen 'defenseless player'.
Not necessary
(14) Hands to the face = 15 yards.
Good clarification
(15) AFD/LOD if PF.
NO
(16) AFD if USC by B.
NO
(17) Coaches bail moat on RFP
In AZ coaches are good to get out of the moat before snap because we enforce the moat strictly, not necessary
(18) Previous spot if foul by A behind LOS or by B if run ends behind LOS.
No

[AlUpstateNY]

Fair and reasonable.

REALLY? By any chance would you be a "woke" Public Defender?