OT

[refjeff]

The Jaguars just beat the Cowboys with an OT pick 6.

In NFHS the ball is dead.

I hate that.  It changes a fundamental rule and the balance between offense and defense.

THAT is a rule change I would love to see.

[Badger1]

In Wisconsin we follow the NCAA overtime rules so it would be a TD here.

[AlUpstateNY]

The Jaguars just beat the Cowboys with an OT pick 6.

In NFHS the ball is dead.

I hate that.  It changes a fundamental rule and the balance between offense and defense.

THAT is a rule change I would love to see.

NFHS rules provides EACH team an equal opportunity to score in each  of THEIR OT sequence of plays.  A change of possession ends the sequence, after which the opponent is given the same opportunity.  When each team either doesn't score, or one scores more than the other, in the same sequence, the game is decided, If not, another full OT sequence begins.

NCAA, NFL, other Rule codes offer their own options.

[Ralph Damren]

See how you can lose in OT without going into OT WATCH PATRIOT/RAIDER FINAL 

[refjeff]

NFHS rules provides EACH team an equal opportunity to score in each  of THEIR OT sequence of plays.  A change of possession ends the sequence, after which the opponent is given the same opportunity.  When each team either doesn't score, or one scores more than the other, in the same sequence, the game is decided, If not, another full OT sequence begins.

NCAA, NFL, other Rule codes offer their own options.

Yeah, I know the rule.  I hate it.  It changes a fundamental rule of football and the balance between offense and defense.

[refjeff]

See how you can loose in OT without going into OI  WATCH PATRIOT/RAIDER FINAL 

That was brutal.

[bossman72]

NFHS doesn't want to get into the business of what you do with fouls after a change of possession in OT (and on tries for that matter).  You'd need a bunch of exceptions, account for A-B-A, etc.  Just make it dead and keep it simple is their philosophy.

[refjeff]

NFHS doesn't want to get into the business of what you do with fouls after a change of possession in OT (and on tries for that matter).  You'd need a bunch of exceptions, account for A-B-A, etc.  Just make it dead and keep it simple is their philosophy.

That makes sense.

I still hate it.

[Ralph Damren]

Remember, guys, each state can write their own OT rules. The NFHS only provides a framework.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Remember, guys, each state can write their own OT rules. The NFHS only provides a framework.

In Massachusetts the MIAA has adopted OT rules more similar to NCAA OT rules.  The ball stays live during all non-try plays following COP on the last play in the 2nd series (the last play of 1 overtime period).  For penalties on A after the COP B has the option of enforcing the penalty and running 1 play from the succeeding spot.  But Bossman is right, penalty enforcement can get a bit dicey.  Here's the full paragraph from the MIAA 2022 handbook:

69.3.1.4. If there is a change of team possession during the last play of an overtime period (second series), live ball personal fouls or live ball unsportsmanlike conduct fouls by opponents of the team last gaining possession, that occur after the change of possession, gives the team in possession the option of putting the ball in play, where the penalty leaves the ball, for one down free of penalty or penalize as a dead ball foul at the succeeding spot in the subsequent overtime period. This option is exercised only if the team last gaining possession is free of foul during the down.

[AlUpstateNY]

Yeah, I know the rule.  I hate it.  It changes a fundamental rule of football and the balance between offense and defense.

What about the fundamental; Each team is provided with 4 downs to outscore their opponent.  COP rewards the defense for accomplishing THAT objective, but they still have to SCORE (on their own).

[refjeff]

What about the fundamental; Each team is provided with 4 downs to outscore their opponent.  COP rewards the defense for accomplishing THAT objective, but they still have to SCORE (on their own).

  Well if the defense scores then that team would score on their own, except the rules eliminate that fundamental part of the game.

[AlUpstateNY]

  Well if the defense scores then that team would score on their own, except the rules eliminate that fundamental part of the game.

OT is different than regular game time.  Creating  a COP gives the Defense a "reward" by eliminating ANY opportunity for the Offence to score during their possession.  If the COP happened during the second hall of an OT session, where there NOT had been a score in the 1st half, the game is OVER, as both teams have had the same opportunity to score (or match scores). 

When the Defense causes a COP, the ball is DEAD, that OT opportunity is OVER for the Offense, and the Defense (becomes the Offense) & is awarded a set of downs to score.

[Ralph Damren]

QUESTON: If first team on offense throws a pic-6, does the team that just scored still have to run 4 downs and take knees as the team now on defense could score,too?

[NVFOA_Ump]

QUESTON: If first team on offense throws a pic-6, does the team that just scored still have to run 4 downs and take knees as the team now on defense could score,too?

- One of the more obvious problems!

[ilyazhito]

No. As both teams have had one possession, and one scored on theirs, the game is over. Under NCAA rules, the answer would be the same. The rules say that "There shall be an equal number of possession series..., unless B scores other than on the try" (Rule 3, Section 1, Article 3 (f)).
Under NFHS rules, assuming that they do not change to allow B to score on the try, it would sound as follows "There shall be an equal number of possession series unless B scores".

[refjeff]

QUESTON: If first team on offense throws a pic-6, does the team that just scored still have to run 4 downs and take knees as the team now on defense could score,too?

Nope.  They already had their offensive possession.

[refjeff]

OT is different than regular game time.  Creating  a COP gives the Defense a "reward" by eliminating ANY opportunity for the Offence to score during their possession.  If the COP happened during the second hall of an OT session, where there NOT had been a score in the 1st half, the game is OVER, as both teams have had the same opportunity to score (or match scores). 

Hmmm.  A had 1st & 10.  B had 1 play.  That is not the same opportunity.

When the Defense causes a COP, the ball is DEAD, that OT opportunity is OVER for the Offense, and the Defense (becomes the Offense) & is awarded a set of downs to score.

Yes, we all know that.

I hate it.

[bossman72]

I'd be interested to see the full OT rules for states that do not use the NFHS recommended OT procedure, just to see what they do with fouls after a COP.

If anyone doesn't use NFHS OT, please post your state's OT rule.

[ElvisLives]

In NCAA extra periods, we play until there is a winner. No ties. By what I was reading above, is it possible to have a final tie score under NFHS rules?

Quoting:
"If the COP happened during the second hall of an OT session, where there NOT had been a score in the 1st half, the game is OVER, as both teams have had the same opportunity to score (or match scores)."

Scenario: Antelopes had the ball for the first possession of an "overtime" period, but fail to score. During the Bears' possession of the same "overtime" period, they throw a pass that is intercepted by the Antelopes. Sounds like the down is over immediately upon Antelopes' possession. The score is still tied. Is the game over?

[Ralph Damren]

Remember, guys. each state can decide if to play overtime and what format to use. Several states veer from the NFHS procedure and you may be able to start a grassroots movement to convince your state association to tweak your state's overtime rule.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I'd be interested to see the full OT rules for states that do not use the NFHS recommended OT procedure, just to see what they do with fouls after a COP.  If anyone doesn't use NFHS OT, please post your state's OT rule.

Here's the entire Massachusetts Tie-Breaker Rule from the MIAA handbook:

69.3 MIAA Tie-Breaker Rule. (Revised 4/13/22)
69.3.1 The MIAA Football Tie-Breaker Rule, multiple overtime periods: will ensure that the game will not end in a tie.
69.3.1.1 Additional overtime periods will be used if teams are tied at the end of regulation or succeeding overtime periods.
69.3.1.2 Each series shall begin at the ten-yard line unless a penalty overrides. First down chains will not be used. It is always goal-to-go. If penalty enforcement calls for an automatic first down, it will be first and goal.
69.3.1.3 For the first and subsequent tie breaking periods, any team that scores a touchdown must attempt a two point conversion by run or pass from scrimmage.
69.3.1.4 If there is a change of team possession during the last play of an overtime period (second series), live ball personal fouls or live ball unsportsmanlike conduct fouls by opponents of the team last gaining possession, that occur after the change of possession, gives the team in possession the option of putting the ball in play, where the penalty leaves the ball, for one down free of penalty or penalize as a dead ball foul at the succeeding spot in the subsequent overtime period. This option is exercised only if the team last gaining possession is free of foul during the down.

Example: Second Series - Team B intercepts Team A's pass and, during Team B's run back, Team A commits a personal foul.
Ruling: Team B has the option of extending the overtime period for one down free of penalty, with Team B putting the ball in play where the penalty leaves the ball, provided Team B has not fouled during the down. Or Team B may choose to penalize as a dead ball foul at the succeeding spot in the subsequent overtime period.

[Badger1]

In Wisconsin on a change of possession during overtime:
● The defensive team (Team B) can score–the ball remains live if team possession changes during a down.

17. FOULS BEFORE A CHANGE OF TEAM POSSESSION DURING A HALF INNING.
Fouls committed by either team or by both teams before team possession has changed during a down are enforced
as per National Federation rules. Fouls by both teams before team possession has changed are “double fouls.”

18. FOULS AFTER A CHANGE OF TEAM POSSESSION DURING A HALF INNING.
Fouls that occur after Team B gains possession are penalized as follows:
● After a change of team possession during a half inning [the set of downs by one team] distance penalties for fouls
by either team are declined by rule.
● Dead ball fouls, live ball fouls penalized as dead ball fouls, and flagrant fouls are enforced from the succeeding
spot.
● A score is canceled by a team that commits a foul during the down.
● The down is not replayed if double fouls occur, no matter whether one or both fouls occur after Team B gains
possession.
19. SCORING.
The offensive team can score a touchdown, convert a try, score a field goal and score via a safety.
The defensive team can score via a touchdown or safety.

[refjeff]

    Seems simple enough to me.

[KWH]

Me too!
 
If the defensive team gains possession the ball becomes dead immediately and the offensive teams series of downs is ended.

  Seems simple enough to me?