Play Clock?

[bama_stripes]

We’ve been having a discussion about this situation:

PLAY: K’s punt is downed at the R-30. Following an official’s TO for an injured player, B is penalized for encroachment.

What is the status of the play clock?

[ilyazhito]

Was the ready-for-play whistle blown yet for the subsequent series? There cannot be encroachment until the lines of scrimmage are set, and all that is known is that there is a punt that is downed and an officials' timeout for injury.

[SCline]

40 seconds, game clock starts on the snap

[NVFOA_Ump]

Play clock is set to 25 seconds following all kicks and starts on the RFP.  The last legal play here was a kick so I'm sticking with 25 seconds.  Game clock on the snap.

[ted skoundrianos]

What the play clock for injured defense player after the touchdown. 25 or 40.

[CalhounLJ]

What the play clock for injured defense player after the touchdown. 25 or 40.

The TD stopped the clock, not the injury. Go :25 on the play clock.

[bama_stripes]

Was the ready-for-play whistle blown yet for the subsequent series? There cannot be encroachment until the lines of scrimmage are set, and all that is known is that there is a punt that is downed and an officials' timeout for injury.

Yes.

[bama_stripes]

Play clock is set to 25 seconds following all kicks and starts on the RFP.  The last legal play here was a kick so I'm sticking with 25 seconds.  Game clock on the snap.

This was my rationale exactly.  Without the penalty, A was only entitled to :25, so they weren’t put at any disadvantage.

Thanks for the responses.

[CalhounLJ]

Play clock is set to 25 seconds following all kicks and starts on the RFP.  The last legal play here was a kick so I'm sticking with 25 seconds.  Game clock on the snap.

Agree

[refjeff]

Game clock isn't running so it doesn't make any difference, but the rule book is clear.

40 seconds.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Game clock isn't running so it doesn't make any difference, but the rule book is clear.

40 seconds.

What rule is that?

[ncwingman]

What rule is that?

3-6-2: 40 seconds will be on the play clock after a down other than specified in 3-6-1a(1)

3-6-1a(1)-(e): Following an official's time out as in 3-5-7 or 3-5-10, Exception 2: 3-5-7i [...] if related to a defensive player.

I get the philosophy of why it might be 25, but the rule clearly states that after administering a penalty on the defense, the play clock is set to 40.

[Ralph Damren]

AHH..but the results of unintended consequenses  . This rule was put in to prevent the following :

(1) 39" left in half/game;
(2)  A leading by 4, 4th down, clock running;
(3) big ole' Bubba pretends he swallowed a 'skeeter & tips over;
(4) after 'injury' TO, play clock set for 25", meaninmg A has to get off a play.

I suggested we only worry about that within the Last 2' of either half.
   That didn't fly 
      Anywhere in the game it applies. 

There are NO visable play clocks on any high school fields in Maine. The visable play clocks are on all college fields that are used for many playoff games. In those games, the play clocks are NOT used. The only questions I ever get from the coaches are : "Who is giving the 'poor man's stopwatch'".

...AND THE BAND PLAYED ON...

[ncwingman]

AHH..but the results of unintended consequenses  . This rule was put in to prevent the following :

(1) 39" left in half/game;
(2)  A leading by 4, 4th down, clock running;
(3) big ole' Bubba pretends he swallowed a 'skeeter & tips over;
(4) after 'injury' TO, play clock set for 25", meaninmg A has to get off a play.

I suggested we only worry about that within the Last 2' of either half.
   That didn't fly 
      Anywhere in the game it applies. 

I'm in agreement with how the rule is written. Considering that on-field play clocks are never (and I mean never never) operated by an official around me, relying on Joe Q. Parent to remember to change 25/40 rules part of the way through the game would be an exercise in futility and frustration. It's already difficult to get them to get it to start on time (or consistently) in the first place.

There are NO visable play clocks on any high school fields in Maine. The visable play clocks are on all college fields that are used for many playoff games. In those games, the play clocks are NOT used. The only questions I ever get from the coaches are : "Who is giving the 'poor man's stopwatch'".

Coincidentally, there are now fewer working on-field play clocks since we switched to the 25/40. Many fields that previously had on field play clocks could only operate with a 25 second clock and upgrading them to allow for 40 was not feasible (usually financially). Many fields I go to have on-field play clocks, but they are inoperable and left off.

I am certainly a fan of having the only operating play clock on my wrist, as well.

[SCline]

As ncwingman said:

I get the philosophy of why it might be 25, but the rule clearly states that after administering a penalty on the defense, the play clock is set to 40.

[NVFOA_Ump]

3-6-2: 40 seconds will be on the play clock after a down other than specified in 3-6-1a(1)

3-6-1a(1)-(e): Following an official's time out as in 3-5-7 or 3-5-10, Exception 2: 3-5-7i [...] if related to a defensive player.

I get the philosophy of why it might be 25, but the rule clearly states that after administering a penalty on the defense, the play clock is set to 40.

We'll disagree here.  IMHO the last legal play on the field was a scrimmage kick.  When changed last year the clear explanation was the exceptions were added specifically to prevent team B from gaining an advantage with the game clock.  After a legal scrimmage kick the game clock does not start until the snap.  The exception is coupled with 3-6-1-a-1-e.  3-6-1-a-1-f is the next section that clearly states that the play clock is set to 25 sec following a legal kick play.

[SCline]

We can disagree but ncwingman and I would be right

You have created in your description a concept foreign to the rule book of a “last legal play”. The action that most recently has happened chronologically is an officials timeout for enforcement of an encroachment foul against the defense.

[NVFOA_Ump]

We can disagree but ncwingman and I would be right

You have created in your description a concept foreign to the rule book of a “last legal play”. The action that most recently has happened chronologically is an officials timeout for enforcement of an encroachment foul against the defense.

Then by simple rule layout the exception is in the wrong place if it is intended to include the entire set of 3-6-1-a-1 conditions.  And it would also conflict with last year's explanation of the new exception in that it was clearly stated that it was intended to prevent B from effectively manipulating the game clock.

[ncwingman]

Then by simple rule layout the exception is in the wrong place if it is intended to include the entire set of 3-6-1-a-1 conditions.  And it would also conflict with last year's explanation of the new exception in that it was clearly stated that it was intended to prevent B from effectively manipulating the game clock.

I think you're over-litigiously reading the rule.

Is your argument that when the defense fouls prior to the snap when the play clock had started from 25 seconds, that the play clock should only be reset to 25 seconds? I'm certainly not reading anywhere in the rule book that suggests that should be the case.

Ralph's story earlier noted that the rule, as written, allows for the 40 second play clock in a wide variety of cases (arguably too wide), but it makes the rule simple (if defense, then 40) without complex sub clauses and exceptions.

[NVFOA_Ump]

As I said we'll simply disagree since I believe that we read the rules as written and as intended when the changes were added with clear explanation from NFHS.

[CalhounLJ]

I think you're over-litigiously reading the rule.

Is your argument that when the defense fouls prior to the snap when the play clock had started from 25 seconds, that the play clock should only be reset to 25 seconds? I'm certainly not reading anywhere in the rule book that suggests that should be the case.

Ralph's story earlier noted that the rule, as written, allows for the 40 second play clock in a wide variety of cases (arguably too wide), but it makes the rule simple (if defense, then 40) without complex sub clauses and exceptions.

I think you’re right. I think that while resetting the play clock to the previous status makes sense, the rule clearly states :40 on a defensive penalty with no exceptions. I stand corrected.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I think you’re right. I think that while resetting the play clock to the previous status makes sense, the rule clearly states :40 on a defensive penalty with no exceptions. I stand corrected.

Again, another fine example of garbled wording in the NFHS rulebook.

[bama_stripes]

The part of 3-6-1(2) that makes me believe it’s :25 is “The play clock will be set to 40 seconds following a down...”

We didn’t have a down.

[ncwingman]

K's Punt was downed at the 30. Was that play not a legal down?

If you're picking the fly poop out of the pepper by saying that Exception 2 for 3-6-1-a-1-e doesn't mean it's a :40 play clock, then what does it mean? If you have any dead ball foul on B, where the exception states that you wouldn't set the play clock to :25 and it's not "following a down" so you can't set it to :40... what do you set it to? Is there any rule coverage at all? Can we invoke 1-1-6 and set the play clock to :37?

[NVFOA_Ump]

K's Punt was downed at the 30. Was that play not a legal down?

If you're picking the fly poop out of the pepper by saying that Exception 2 for 3-6-1-a-1-e doesn't mean it's a :40 play clock, then what does it mean? If you have any dead ball foul on B, where the exception states that you wouldn't set the play clock to :25 and it's not "following a down" so you can't set it to :40... what do you set it to? Is there any rule coverage at all? Can we invoke 1-1-6 and set the play clock to :37?

1. The last legal down was a legal kick play
2. The game clock is stopped to award team R a new series
3. The play clock is set to 25 seconds by rule in 3-6-1-a-1-f
4. And starts on the RFP


Our guidance based on what I believe is the clear wording in the rule is we complete the penalty, reset the play clock back to the original 25 and move on.  We have been clearly instructed that if we had a 25 second play clock that was interrupted by a flag or any other official timeout then that is where we reset the play clock to.