KCI & Illegal Touch

[TXMike]

Sometimes you need to trust your gut.

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[JasonTX]

The B is out of position.  He was lined up on the sideline so he couldn't help out on this play. 

[Atlanta Blue]

I think he had it right the first time - that's KCI.

AR 6-3-1-III. Beyond the neutral zone A1 is standing or running between a kick
in flight and B1, and (a) A1 is struck by the ball while B1 is in a
position to catch the ball; or (b) B1, in attempting to catch the ball,
bumps into A1. RULING: Illegal interference. Penalty—(a) and (b):
15 yards for interference with the opportunity to catch the kick.
 

AR 6-3-1-V. A Team A player beyond the neutral zone first touches or catches a
scrimmage kick that no receiver could have caught while it was in
flight. RULING: Illegal touching but not interference.


Sure looks like A1 ran between the kick in flight and B1 while B1 was in a position to make the catch.  I'm not saying he was going to make the catch, but he was in position to do so.  In fact, his reason for pulling up may well have been the proximity of A1 to where the kick was coming down.  B1 had hs hands out, A1 got to within a yard of him and had the ball hit him.  WHY would the crew wave this off?

[ljref86]

As the White Hat in this game I first apologize to my officiating brethren for giving Ill Touch instead of first touch. My umpire asked me as he came down if I gave the touch signal and I replied yes the wrong one. I had a brain fart on NT. As far as the flag being waved off, this was due to the info at hand. Reported as K team touching ball before R team made a play. This LJ is young (23 Varsity Games) no excuse we realize, but we have discussed this play as well as many others from the game and we will be fine in the future, but as they say, " Live and Learn "
The LJ never had KCI. The film shows he could have.

[Birddog]

ljref86,  It is a  good thing your LJ busted it down to be in position to actually see the illegal touch.  We don't know if the BJ had the same thing, but if he did it was a long distance call.  We  could be talking about somthing completly different on this play had he not seen the glance off the helmet.  Good luck to all and have a great season.

[TXMike]

1st, the only people who even knew the signal was wrong were SOME officials (not even all of them).
The point I was trying to make Mon night at the meeting was you have to give your R a full report of what happened in a play like this.  If the R had been told the returner was coming to catch the ball, he would have recognized there was a KCI component. 
And has been pointed out, we needed help from our B but when he is out of position we might not get it.

[Morningrise]

I've just noticed that the NCAA rulebook doesn't actually specify S16 or any other signal for illegal touching violations. (Only for illegal touching FOULS, i.e. of a forward pass.) Neither does my conference's mechanics manual. Does the CCA manual (which i don't have on me) mention it?

My understanding has always been that, on simple punts that go untouched by B, the covering official can signal S16 especially if he's moving the succeeding spot to a beanbag; and on plays requiring an announcement, the R should signal S16 when announcing the violation. That's commonplace, right? I've always done it that way but I can't find it in writing.

[Diablo]

I've just noticed that the NCAA rulebook doesn't actually specify S16 or any other signal for illegal touching violations. (Only for illegal touching FOULS, i.e. of a forward pass.) Neither does my conference's mechanics manual. Does the CCA manual (which i don't have on me) mention it?

Why do you think S16 is used exclusively for fouls and not for violations?

My understanding has always been that, on simple punts that go untouched by B, the covering official can signal S16 especially if he's moving the succeeding spot to a beanbag; and on plays requiring an announcement, the R should signal S16 when announcing the violation. That's commonplace, right? I've always done it that way but I can't find it in writing.

That's my understanding. 
But remember that can be illegal touching and subsequent touching by B.