Author Topic: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL  (Read 714 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« on: April 19, 2024, 01:30:45 PM »
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2024/4/19/media-center-technology-rules-approved-in-football.aspx

Here are the PROP Approved Rules Changes. Now we wait to see what exceptions, if any, the UIL will take to these changes. My guess is that the UIL will approve the 2-minute T/O in 2nd/4th periods, but take exception to everything else.

The PROP rejected additional rule change to uniforms. So, no change there for UIL for 2024. So, we'll still see bermuda shorts, and no one will do anything about it, including us. Status quo. End of story for 2024.

Offline bctgp

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2024, 03:16:56 PM »
I think the UIL will also accept the change to horse-collar tackle in the tackle-box now being a foul.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2024, 04:17:06 PM »
I think the UIL will also accept the change to horse-collar tackle in the tackle-box now being a foul.

Yes, I concur.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2024, 05:20:53 PM »
I’m not sure I see the UIL taking the 2 minute warning unless they take other timing rules with it. It’s kind of hard to justify an extra timeout when you’re still stopping the clock on first downs all game and the clock is on the snap on OOB plays all game.

Offline Cosmokramer1

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2024, 01:17:59 PM »
If the UIL does adopt the 2 minute warning I would then like to see them also adopt/remove the first down clock stoppage.  Unofficially, we all seem to adopt our own rules anyway.  For example, we may stop the clock on the first down but within about 3-5 seconds after giving the stop clock signal we are already winding the clock even as the chains haven't even started moving downfield yet.   ;D

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2024, 12:31:23 PM »
I am hearing talk on the plains about the UIL Rules Committee Acceptance of Proposed Rule Changes as follows:

"The two-minute timeout was discussed but the UIL's football rules committee decided that we will continue to use our current clock rules as they pertain to stopping & starting the clock under two minutes of each half. No two-minute timeouts."

"The uniform rule & horse collar rule WILL both be applicable to UIL games going forward."

  -Direct Quote from a Head Coach
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Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2024, 12:55:26 PM »
What uniform rule? They’re going to take the rule denied by PROP and adopt it anyway?

Online dammitbobby

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2024, 06:36:32 PM »
..has that ever been done before? (adopting something PROP committee denied?)

Even if they do, it doesn't change anything really - officials still won't enforce it.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2024, 07:29:11 PM »
Last year they wrote their own rule regarding defensive linemen on field goal attempts that was not even a blip on the NCAA radar. It’s not quite the same, but it’s the only time I remember them going off on their own in the almost 15 years I’ve been doing this.

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2024, 08:17:30 PM »
We all have heard the TASO Football Officers push for us to try to police the uniform situation since 2018. Hopefully by now, the coaches are tired of this mess and will allow us to enforce the rules since the oked this uniform policy.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2024, 08:19:09 PM »
What uniform rule? They’re going to take the rule denied by PROP and adopt it anyway?

I second that question: What uniform rule (change)? There aren’t any, unless the UIL unilaterally chooses to adopt something. If they do, then I say that we hit ‘em hard in week 1, so they either show they mean it and gives 100% support, or decide they don’t really mean it, and then WE just go back to what we have been doing, which is nothing.

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2024, 08:22:30 PM »
..has that ever been done before? (adopting something PROP committee denied?)

Even if they do, it doesn't change anything really - officials still won't enforce it.

If they did pass it, why wouldn't you try to enforce it?
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2024, 09:07:43 PM »
If they did pass it, why wouldn't you try to enforce it?

Not trying to be insulting, but, with that comment, you would not seem to be an official working UIL (Texas) HS football. Coaches from both teams in every contest have the ‘right’ to accept or reject officials for their games. So, official R1 enforces the rule, and keeps a star player out of a game for some amount of time while he gets pants that get his knees covered. Even if they win the game, Coach X doesn’t like being handicapped for even one down, and vows to scratch that official/crew from ever working his games. Word gets around to other coaches that official R1 enforces the rule, but official R2 doesn’t, so they should choose R2. R1 finds out that he isn’t getting assignments to those top programs (who have strong attendance at their games, thus greater officiating fees), and R1 decides not to enforce that rule, any more.
And so it goes.

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2024, 09:37:54 AM »
While I can appreciate you trying to not be insulting @ElivisLives, from what you are saying plays right into the coaches hands. You will officiate for them the way they want. I know this is a cut throat profession and we all want playoff games, but to what to end. If each crew in each chapter enforced the rules as instructed, then it would become the norm and coaches would fix the problem on their own because the rule will be enforced. Coaches are just like players, they will try to get away with as much as you let them. Just Zebra up and enforce the rule. It will help all your fellow Zebras down the line.
I do officiate in Texas
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Online dammitbobby

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2024, 10:33:37 AM »
While I can appreciate you trying to not be insulting @ElivisLives, from what you are saying plays right into the coaches hands. You will officiate for them the way they want. I know this is a cut throat profession and we all want playoff games, but to what to end. If each crew in each chapter enforced the rules as instructed, then it would become the norm and coaches would fix the problem on their own because the rule will be enforced. Coaches are just like players, they will try to get away with as much as you let them. Just Zebra up and enforce the rule. It will help all your fellow Zebras down the line.
I do officiate in Texas

That's fantasy.  You are normalizing coaches having a say in choosing officials, which is the root of the problem. Literally no other level, or location, of competitive sports allows coaches the right to unilaterally pick who they want to officiate their games - for very good reason. As long as coaches are allowed to introduce corruptibility into the process, this will not change.

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2024, 11:01:27 AM »
I know coaches do have a great say in what officials to use. We as Zebras have a great say in how we officiate and enforce rules. You have to decide what side of the fence you want to be on. You can't be scared to make the correct call no matter the consequences because it effects all your fellow Zebras.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 11:03:16 AM by Zebra Watcher »
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Online dammitbobby

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2024, 11:13:06 AM »
Do not confuse my ability or courage to make a correct call during a game with enforcing uniform stylistic choices. 

Coaches sign a card that their teams have been instructed to wear and how to wear mandatory equipment. It's their problem. 


Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2024, 11:58:55 AM »
Correct. Coaches do sign equipment card. It's their problem when Zebras enforce the rules that come with the agreed contract. Do your part to force them to do their part. If you can't handle the simple stuff, how can you be expected to handle the big stuff.
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Online dammitbobby

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2024, 12:43:10 PM »
If you can't handle the simple stuff, how can you be expected to handle the big stuff.

Because I can discern what is important and relevant, and what is not.  But you do you, and I'll keep on keeping on as well.

Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2024, 01:36:00 PM »
Very good @dammitbobby. Maybe one day we will agree on a topic.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2024, 03:33:08 PM »
Hmmm. I thought it might be just a one-time typo, but there it is again. What the heck is with the "at" sign in front my (or anybody else's) user name?
Not my label. I'll thank you to refrain from taking liberties with my user name. (I can't speak for others, but they may not like it, either).

And don't pretend to know what I will, or won't, enforce. I'm the guy fighting to get everybody to call illegal shifts (or illegal shift that converts to a false start) when Team A fails to stop and PAUSE for one FULL second before the snap. I'm the guy fighting to keep coaches very near the sideline between downs, while giving signals, then OFF THE WHITE by the time the ball is snapped (end line to end line). I'm the guy fighting to keep defensive players from deliberately stepping on/kneeing/pushing up off the ball carrier after they make the tackle. I'm the guy that checks game balls every game. I'm the guy that insists on having a conference with BOTH clock operators before every game. EVERY GAME! I'm the guy that won't allow the game operations folks to switch the lights off (fully dark) after a score or other 'home' event (in keeping with the NCAA direction, to which the UIL has NOT taken exception). (It won't be me that makes headlines when some kid gets sent to the hospital after getting kicked in the nads, or shanked, or smashed in the head with a helmet while the lights are out, and all we see is the kid laying on the ground in agony (or worse) after the lights come back on.) I'm the guy that makes game management move the end zone camera from right behind the goal support to outside the limit line, and make all photographers and 'dignitaries' stay outside the limit lines THE ENTIRE GAME. I'm the guy that makes the bands not play when the opponent is about to put the ball in play.
The guys that we are talking about don't do that, to ensure their position in the pecking order of 'coach picks,' or because they are too frickin' lazy.

Now. I will grant you that the knee covering thing is a different animal. A player can easily get a mouthpiece. A player can get easily a tailbone pad. A player can easily get a tinted visor removed from his helmet. Unfortunately, a player can't so easily get a pair of pants with longer legs within an hour of game time (especially a visiting team). And the coaches know that. They blame it on the uniform supplier: "Well that's what they sent us!" After two seasons of trying to fight this, everyone just gave up on that issue. Obviously, the coaches not only don't care, but, by omission, they encourage this behavior in the name of improved performance (real or imagined). We might have made one or two players work hard to keep their pants pulled down at the start of a drive, but then they 'shrink' up. And we just got tired of fighting this. They don't care; we don't care.
If the UIL writes their own rule to increase enforcement of this, then, by all means, WE need to stick it to 'em in those first few weeks, regardless of threats to scratch us, etc. And then we write up every incident where we had to enforce such a new UIL rule, and force the UIL to support us, or tell us, officially, "Just kidding."
Yes, this is an issue that the UIL needs to address internally, and not make us the 'bad guys.' Have us send in incident reports for every team that plays a player that doesn't wear conforming pants. No in-game penalty - just an incident report. Then they can use the incident report to fine the teams. And maybe even rule them ineligible for post-season play, if they have multiple incident reports for this reason.

Won't happen, as much as I wish it would.

Just don't pretend to know what I will, or won't, enforce. And don't call me "@".


Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2024, 08:00:55 PM »
Whoa at ElvisLives.....I didn't know "@" would cause such emotional damage and trigger you by taking liberties with your user name. A thousand apologies.
The vast check list of items you fight for is quite impressive. Based on it, you provide a great service to the games with integrity in an efficient and constructive manner by going above and beyond what UIL asks. I can appreciate it along with coaches, players, and parents.
I won't pretend to know what you will and won't enforce but based on your checklist, you appear to enforce most rules. I am just going off the language towards the new uniform rule you have written about on here. I would imagine you would enforce this rule since it would go well with your esteemed checklist of services you provide. Writing incident reports on it when coaches get upset about will just be part of it. We are trying to turn a giant ship in the right direction and that will take a little bit of time, a few more incident reports, but will take all of us to do it.
I guess I am naive thinking this rule is a step in the right direction with coaches, UIL, and TASO. Only time will tell us this. The coaches too.
Again.. a thousand apologies for the "@" at ElvisLives
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Offline Cosmokramer1

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2024, 07:56:19 AM »
I love the discussion taking place.  I just wanted to welcome Zebra Watcher as a second or third year official in Texas.  He has entered that stage of officiating in which he's done a couple of sub-varsity game in which he was able to control the narrative of the game with the coaches so now he has the confidence to carry that over to the varsity field to work the stadium games and get ready for his upcoming state championship assignment.  Well done sir.  You are definitely on your way to AT&T. 

Offline Etref

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2024, 01:01:10 PM »
Perhaps all should reread the Guidelines for Texas Forum stickied at the top of this forum.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2024, 01:56:35 PM by Etref »
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Offline Zebra Watcher

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Re: PROP Approved Rules changes - now we wait for the UIL
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2024, 04:58:52 PM »
You are right Etref. I apologize for my part in taking this thread in the wrong direction for what it is intended for.
Thank you for the welcome Cosmokramer1. What are your thoughts on this old but new rule?
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