Need some help with this one

[goldsmi]

The play:

4th and 4 at the K17.
Team K punts the ball and R18 possesses the kick at the R48.
R18 runs to the K44 where K77 grabs and twists his face mask in an attempt to make the tackle.
Prior to being tackled, R18 fumbles the ball at the K42 and it is recovered by K22 at the K40 who is on the ground.
At the snap, team K had 6 players on the line of scrimmage and 5 in the backfield.

I am told that the ruling is:
This is a multiple foul for the illegal formation and the face mask. Team R will have the option of which foul to enforce. The likely foul will be the face mask which will be enforced from the end of the run (where the ball was fumbled) and it will be 1st and 10 for R at the K27

I don't understand why we would give the ball to R.

I thought that since the ball is in K possession at the end of the down, K would retain possession and due to the multiple foul by K, R would have a choice of which one to enforce.
I would think that R would decline the FM and we would enforce the IF 5yd from the previous spot which would make 4/9/K/K12.

Any Rules Book or Case Book references would be appreciated.
Thanks!

[SCHSref]

The play:

4th and 4 at the K17.
Team K punts the ball and R18 possesses the kick at the R48.
R18 runs to the K44 where K77 grabs and twists his face mask in an attempt to make the tackle.
Prior to being tackled, R18 fumbles the ball at the K42 and it is recovered by K22 at the K40 who is on the ground.
At the snap, team K had 6 players on the line of scrimmage and 5 in the backfield.

I am told that the ruling is:
This is a multiple foul for the illegal formation and the face mask. Team R will have the option of which foul to enforce. The likely foul will be the face mask which will be enforced from the end of the run (where the ball was fumbled) and it will be 1st and 10 for R at the K27

I don't understand why we would give the ball to R.

I thought that since the ball is in K possession at the end of the down, K would retain possession and due to the multiple foul by K, R would have a choice of which one to enforce.
I would think that R would decline the FM and we would enforce the IF 5yd from the previous spot which would make 4/9/K/K12.

Any Rules Book or Case Book references would be appreciated.
Thanks!

R's ball.  both are live ball fouls.  10-2-4

[The Roamin' Umpire]

I think we can safely ignore the illegal formation foul - its penalty would never be the one accepted by R.

You will have a hard time finding a rule specifically addressing this situation, but consider: Where is the enforcement spot for the face mask foul?

The case book play you want to look at is 5.2.5.

[SCHSref]

I think we can safely ignore the illegal formation foul - its penalty would never be the one accepted by R.

You will have a hard time finding a rule specifically addressing this situation, but consider: Where is the enforcement spot for the face mask foul?

The case book play you want to look at is 5.2.5.

Well, since it is not by the team in possession, it is from the end of the run.

[ncwingman]

K did not get the ball (back) with clean hands.

From a practical standpoint, if you enforce the facemask foul from the end of the run -- who was in possession of the ball at that point? Remember that a loose ball still "belongs" to the team that last possessed it, so even if the facemask foul was after the fumble, K had not yet recovered so it was still R's ball.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Well, since it is not by the team in possession, it is from the end of the run.

Quite. I was responding to the OP - you got your reply in before I was done. 

[AlUpstateNY]

If you're looking for a "general" rationale, a team is entitled to what ever advantage/benefit they accomplish without fouling, but are NOT ENTITLED to any benefit/advantage gained, even legitimately, that follows them fouling.

As suggested above, keeping possession requires that you obtained it with "clean hands".

[Ump33]

5-1-3d . . . When a scrimmage down ends with the ball in the field of play or out of bounds between the goal lines, a new series is awarded to the team in possession at the end of the down, if there is a change of team possession during the down, unless the penalty is accepted for a non-post scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the change of possession.

[goldsmi]

Ump33 - Thanks!
That explains it!

[SCHSref]

If you're looking for a "general" rationale, a team is entitled to what ever advantage/benefit they accomplish without fouling, but are NOT ENTITLED to any benefit/advantage gained, even legitimately, that follows them fouling.

it depends on the situation.  A team CAN benefit from fouling

[bossman72]

Always remember, when you enforce a foul, the team who was in possession at the time of the foul will next snap the ball.

K did not get the ball with clean hands, therefore they cannot keep the ball.

If we enforce the illegal formation foul from the previous spot, it would be K's ball 4/9 @ K12.  Fouls simultaneous to the snap are enforced at the previous spot.  R is obviously declining that one.

If we enforce the facemask foul, it would be R's ball 1/10 @ K27.  Happened during the run play.  Enforce from the end of the run.