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NCAA Discussion / Re: Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by GA Umpire on May 04, 2024, 10:51:55 AM »
GA, as Kalle points out, NCAA is very different than NFHS. All legal in A. Intentional Grounding in B, with B having the option to accept an ‘artificial’ result of the down, instead of accepting a safety (or they can take the safety - their choice). I say ‘artificial,’ because, by rule, when an illegal forward pass falls incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing team at the spot of the pass (not the previous spot). But, there is an exception when the pass is made from the end zone. Team B can accept, essentially, an incomplete pass, i.e., ball spotted at the previous spot, next down. In this case, since it had been 4th down, that results in Team B being awarded the ball at the previous spot, first down.

Upon further review, under NFHS rules in A, if the pass clearly crossed the LoS, it is simply an incomplete pass.
Rule change a couple of seasons ago.

Brain cramp.
 
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by ElvisLives on May 04, 2024, 08:52:01 AM »
A) Legal forward pass, the player who controlled the snap is outside the tackle box and the pass lands beyond the neutral zone. Team B 1/10 A-2 (right hash), snap, 25.

Kalle, for Team B, would that be the right hash? Or the left hash? 😁. (Sorry. Just being a wise guy. Couldn’t help myself.)

B) Illegal forward pass, the player who controlled the snap is not and has not been outside the tackle box. Safety. Team A FK A-20. PC 25. If team B declines the penalty, see A).
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by ElvisLives on May 04, 2024, 08:02:26 AM »
Not up on NCAA rules, but under NFHS rules, in both cases, it is an illegal forward pass with the enforcement spot from the spot of the pass resulting in a safety.

(Answering because I am also bored.)

GA, as Kalle points out, NCAA is very different than NFHS. All legal in A. Intentional Grounding in B, with B having the option to accept an ‘artificial’ result of the down, instead of accepting a safety (or they can take the safety - their choice). I say ‘artificial,’ because, by rule, when an illegal forward pass falls incomplete, the ball belongs to the passing team at the spot of the pass (not the previous spot). But, there is an exception when the pass is made from the end zone. Team B can accept, essentially, an incomplete pass, i.e., ball spotted at the previous spot, next down. In this case, since it had been 4th down, that results in Team B being awarded the ball at the previous spot, first down.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by Kalle on May 04, 2024, 12:59:26 AM »
A) Legal forward pass, the player who controlled the snap is outside the tackle box and the pass lands beyond the neutral zone. Team B 1/10 A-2 (right hash), snap, 25.

B) Illegal forward pass, the player who controlled the snap is not and has not been outside the tackle box. Safety. Team A FK A-20. PC 25. If team B declines the penalty, see A).
45
NCAA Discussion / Re: Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by GA Umpire on May 03, 2024, 09:47:14 PM »
Not up on NCAA rules, but under NFHS rules, in both cases, it is an illegal forward pass with the enforcement spot from the spot of the pass resulting in a safety.

(Answering because I am also bored.)
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NCAA Discussion / Just a quickie, cuz I’m bored
« Last post by ElvisLives on May 03, 2024, 03:50:26 PM »
A) 4/13, A-2 (right hash), 3:10 (4) A=3, B=7.

A11 receives the deep snap 8 yards deep in his end zone. As he begins to step forward to punt the ball, B99 breaks through the line and is rapidly approaching A11. A11 sees B99 and realizes that, if he attempts to punt the ball, B99 will block the kick. A11 runs to his left (top the opposite hash mark) and looks for somebody - ANYBODY - to whom to pass the ball. Now, under pressure from several B players, A11 throws the ball from 5 yards deep in the end zone, and the ball lands inbounds at the A-3, but with only A77 and A55 in the vicinity of where the ball landed.

Ruling:



B) 4/13, A-2 (right hash), 3:10 (4) A=3, B=7.

A11 receives the deep snap 8 yards deep in his end zone. As he begins to step forward to punt the ball, B99 breaks through the line and is rapidly approaching A11. A11 sees B99 and realizes that, if he attempts to punt the ball, B99 will block the kick. A11 takes one side step to avoid the charging B99, and looks for somebody - ANYBODY - to whom to pass the ball. Now, under pressure from several B players, A11 throws the ball from 5 yards deep in the end zone, and the ball lands inbounds at the A-3, but with only A77 and A55 in the vicinity of where the ball landed.

Ruling:
47
General Discussion / Re: UFL
« Last post by ElvisLives on May 02, 2024, 08:57:13 PM »
OK, no joke, here. Hadn’t looked at a UFL game since my post on April 14. Tuned in just now (which is actually a re-run of a game from last weekend), and the first down I see, the QB gets sacked.

Just plain bad football.
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General Discussion / Re: UFL
« Last post by Ralph Damren on May 02, 2024, 06:18:16 AM »
Thanks, Maineac, for the update. I'll follow my pledge and try to watch at least one of their games. :thumbup I assume by your name that we are from the same state/tribe  8] .If so, if you aren't a fellow ootball official, you shoud consider joining as we (like the rest of the nation) are hurting for numbers.  yEs: It's a great hobby and one of the few where you get paid.
                                                                                                                             tiphat:
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General Discussion / Re: UFL
« Last post by Maineac on May 01, 2024, 07:41:07 PM »
Unanswered USFL questions:

(1) Are all games played in one city with teams baring far-away city names ?  ???
(2) Do all of the fans sit in the first rows on the same side of the stadiums ?  ???
(3)  Do the officials still wear adjustable hats ?  ???
(4) Do drones still fly thru pass patterns w/camaramen in both backfields ?   ???

If the answer to at least one of the above in 'NO' , I'll try to watch at least on game...after all it's still FOOTBALL tR:oLl

I caught a UFL game in Detroit at the beginning of April. It was a good time. Good sized crowd (small by NFL standards), $27 for a seat in the lower bowl of Ford Field at the 20 YL. Not bad. To answer the questions: 1) They play in the stadium of the home team, not designated fields like the USFL used to; 2) No. Both sides filled about half way up at the game I attended. 3) No on adjustable hats. They also don’t have piping on the hats. 4) No drones. But they did have the roving camera suspended over the field and plenty of mobile cameras.

Level of play was decent, pace of game was good. 64 yard FG from Michigan K was impressive. UFL provides a place to try out new rules, wouldn’t be surprised to see it turn into a G-League model for the NFL. I would definitely attend another.
50
NCAA Discussion / Speaking of an unfair rule (IMHO)
« Last post by ElvisLives on May 01, 2024, 01:29:53 PM »
7-1-11 and 6-3-12

These are the “Illegal Return” rules, for Team A players on kicking downs. The rules say “…out of bounds…” and make no differentiation between at the sidelines or at the end lines. The entire boundary of the field.

OK. The rule is intended to keep players from running into team areas - particularly their own - where they can 1) nearly disappear, then reappear inbounds, unhindered, where they can recover the ball or make a tackle, and/or 2) use team personnel in those areas to prevent opposing players from hindering their movement down the field. (Note that it is illegal for a player to block an opponent when both are out of bounds, but it is legal for a player to block an opponent who is OB, if the blocker is not OB).

Occasionally, the ball, loose from a kick, can get into Team B’s end zone and remain alive. IMHO, in those cases, players (both teams) have only one thing in mind, and that is to recover the ball.  A Team A player that goes OB from the end zone ain’t hiding from anybody, and doesn’t (or certainly shouldn’t) have any persons in that area to ‘screen’ him from opponents. But, with current rules, if a Team A player were to run OB from the end zone, and then return inbounds, he commits a foul, even if he makes a great play to recover the ball (for a possible TD).

Never happen, you say? Well, around 2010, in the WAC, a team kicked off, and the ball bounced at the B-20, or so, and headed for the end zone, then glanced off the hands of a Team B player around the 8 yard line, and then went into the end zone. The ball continued toward the back of the end zone, and a Team A player, in hot pursuit, runs past the ball (which is now about 1 yard from the end line) then steps out of bounds with both feet, turns around, steps back into the end zone with both feet, and dives on the ball, to recover it (which he does). The crew on the field ruled TD. In his review of our games from the weekend, our coordinator reminded the staff that a Team A player that is OB voluntarily during a kick down may not return inbounds for the remainder of the down. Ouch. That is what is known as a catastrophic error (one in which score is awarded or denied incorrectly, or incorrect possession is awarded).
So, let’s stop and think about the fairness of this rule. First, we DO see a fair number of instances each season when the ball is touched by Team B before it touches the ground in B’s end zone, and the ball remains alive while in the end zone. Once the ball gets to the end zone, what function does this rule serve? IMHO, nothing. In fact, it takes away a great football play made by a Team A player in hustling to be in position to make such a play. I would like to see them change the rule to say, “…a player of Team A who goes OB between the goal lines during a legal kick play…” That would fix this problem. Yeah, a player going OB between the goal line and the B-20 would not likely be a secret, but, the goal line is a much more visible line of demarcation than a ‘plain’ yard line, and would seem to be a fair compromise with the current rule.

Just thinking about things, so I don’t have to think about work.  ;D
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