Are these onside KO plays all

[bigjohn]

This happened in 2017

s

[CalhounLJ]

on second thought, let me delete my response and apologize to the officials who had this game. I have decided that if I can help in a positive way, I will submit a post to this board, but I will not contribute to pointing out the mistakes of my fellow officials. I have made too many of my own..
Sorry guys..

[ncwingman]

I think these have been discussed here before -- the second onside kick should have been flagged for an illegal block as K4 blocked an R player at the 50 prior to the ball travelling 10 yards.

[brettjr2005]

Yeah, the second one definitely isn't legal because of the blocking before 10 yards (and R didn't initiate contact or touch the ball) on two different R players by multiple K players.  Unfortunately R went on to lose the game but this is a good reminder to all of us to pause a second and make sure we're watching for everything, especially on these less common plays.

[ncwingman]

on second thought, let me delete my response and apologize to the officials who had this game. I have decided that if I can help in a positive way, I will submit a post to this board, but I will not contribute to pointing out the mistakes of my fellow officials. I have made too many of my own..
Sorry guys..

There is a difference between a post that is geared at "Look at these idiots screwing up!" and "Here is a mistake that we can all learn from".

We should always be striving to learn and think about plays. In this situation, it's obvious that there was an illegal block -- since we can pause the video and rewind and watch it six times. In real time, it's a lot harder to see at first, and what really helps in many situations is seeing a video of "This is what that illegal action looks like in real time" rather than trying to read it out of the rule book or case book.

[CalhounLJ]

I get all that, but it’s kinda obvious considering the posters history why this video was posted. I suspect it wasn’t for instructional purposes. I could be wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ralph Damren]

....And remember, guys, illegal block on a free kick is ONLY 10 yards IF it would have been legal elsewhere. A block below the waist, chop block, clip, etc. would still be 15 if it occurred in the free kick neutral zone.

[KDJBBBJ]

Just a questions to make us think but what is considered initiating contact?  The two R players that got blocked on the second KO both ran forward towards the K players and then the contact occurred.  Who initiated it?  I have always  thought of the not initiating contact as the player standing there waiting for the ball to get there or going after the ball and getting blocked more like the first KO even though it appears that the ball had gone 10 yards before the contact was made. 

[brettjr2005]

Just a questions to make us think but what is considered initiating contact?  The two R players that got blocked on the second KO both ran forward towards the K players and then the contact occurred.  Who initiated it?  I have always  thought of the not initiating contact as the player standing there waiting for the ball to get there or going after the ball and getting blocked more like the first KO even though it appears that the ball had gone 10 yards before the contact was made.

You can see the two R players start towards the ball then stop when they realize they're about to get clobbered.  On a play like this where the K players are actually ahead of the ball it's obvious that their intent is to initiate contact. 

But just as a general rule, I would say that an R player coming across their restraining line near the ball is going for the ball unless you're 110% that they're looking for contact.  However, bracing for contact to defend themselves when they see a K player approaching isn't initiating by R; R needs to be actively seeking the contact.  If an R player comes across their restraining line and the ball is not in the area then they're obviously looking to initiate contact. 

To really simplify, I think a good rule of thumb is:

As the ball is kicked, R remains focused on the ball while coming forward: R isn't initiating contact.
As the ball is kicked, R shifts his focus to a K player while coming forward: R is initiating contact.

[bigjohn]

My other post was taken really out of context. I meant here were lots of football people that know the rules watching a double pass during a game and no one really caught it.  Coaches included.  It was a jet motion forward pitch(pass) and then a backwards pass and then a forward throwback to the QB, Didn't make a big play but still could have and should have been flagged. It has been passed on to the head of officiating and will be addressed.


Thanks for the guys who answered this post and I thought it was illegal to block R in that manner.

[ncwingman]

It was a jet motion forward pitch(pass) and then a backwards pass and then a forward throwback to the QB, Didn't make a big play but still could have and should have been flagged.

This has actually been brought up as a "thing to watch for" in my area a few times. A lot of teams no longer hand off in the backfield -- it's all a forward pitch, so that if the receiver "fumbles" it's actually an incomplete pass.

However, occasionally, they'll forget that it's a forward pass and try to combine it with a halfback pass play, which is an illegal second forward pass.

When we have one of those teams, it's usually brought up in pregame as a reminder.