Can snapper lift the ball - Fed Rules

[GoGoGo]

This should make for some interesting conversation. In Fed Rules can the snapper lift the ball?

Can the snapper leave the huddle come to the LOS and lift the ball? Lets say he is lifting the ball to get the strings laces positioned where he wants them and not to draw off the defense.

Is that good or do you want me to modify anything else?          

[Sjref]

Our U's had this discussion two seasons ago. I remembered the rule citing before, but it has slipped my mind. 3.3. something maybe. It said that teh center may lift the ball to adjust it. It never said how high or anything really specific. but that was two seasons ago and I didnt look in last years rule book for it.

[Atlanta Blue]

7-1-2:

The snapper may lift the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end-for-end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right
angles to the line of scrimmage.

[LarryW60]

What AB said.  Also, once he puts his hands on the ball he can't remove both hands prior to the snap or it's a foul.

So a snapper can come to the line, rotate the ball around its long axis, then remove ONE of the two hands from the ball and all is legal.

[AlUpstateNY]

to minimize the chance of a problem, on the first play from scrimmage the Umpire can ask each snapper to set the ball on the ground the way he wants to find it (laces up, laces down, laces right or left) and tell the snapper if he doesn't find it the way he wants it, to tell the Umpire who will re-set it, but that he is not to lift the ball. 

It's really no big deal to remember how each team's snapper wants to find the ball and it will reduce the chance of a silly situation dramatically.  If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off.  When you remember to place the ball the way he wants, it makes for a smooth evening/afternoon.

[Atlanta Blue]

to minimize the chance of a problem, on the first play from scrimmage the Umpire can ask each snapper to set the ball on the ground the way he wants to find it (laces up, laces down, laces right or left) and tell the snapper if he doesn't find it the way he wants it, to tell the Umpire who will re-set it, but that he is not to lift the ball. 

It's really no big deal to remember how each team's snapper wants to find the ball and it will reduce the chance of a silly situation dramatically.  If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off.  When you remember to place the ball the way he wants, it makes for a smooth evening/afternoon.

Why would you tell him not to lift the ball when the rules specifically allow him to lift the ball?

I appreciate that you are going to try to put it the way he wants it.  But if you don't, you can't "bite his head off" for doing something that by rule is allowed.

Or is this more of your "common sense" over the rule book officiating?

[AlUpstateNY]

Why would you tell him not to lift the ball when the rules specifically allow him to lift the ball? I appreciate that you are going to try to put it the way he wants it.  But if you don't, you can't "bite his head off" for doing something that by rule is allowed. Or is this more of your "common sense" over the rule book officiating?

Although not always easily visible at first, the Rule Book is absolutely intended to be all about common sense.  We don't want to forget that the participants in this game are "student" athletes, and despite all the pomp and pagentry, there are times their retention skills might need subtle reinforcement.

Sometimes, not always, before reinforcement can actually happen it's necessary to secure the studens's attention.

[GoGoGo]

When I worked the U position I tried to place the ball the way the snapper liked it but I would never tell him not to pick up the ball because he is allowed to by rule.
That is not preventive officiating - that is making up your own rules (IMHO).

[Magician]

What AB said.  Also, once he puts his hands on the ball he can't remove both hands prior to the snap or it's a foul.

So a snapper can come to the line, rotate the ball around its long axis, then remove ONE of the two hands from the ball and all is legal.

Absolutely correct by the technical definition of the rule.  Hopefully in pratice this is not something anyone should nit too much.  Talk to the snappers about what they should and shouldn't do but unless he's doing something to move the ball forward a lot when inches matter or he does something that simulates a snap, I'm not flagging it.  There's a good saying I've learned:  "don't trouble trouble"  This is a great example.  If you want to be a rule book official, go for it.  I guarantee it will be a deal breaker if you are trying to advance to higher levels.

[BIG UMP]

GoGo

Not to be smart but the strings are called laces.

Now for your question.  I like the others place the ball the way that the center requests but should I forget or be distracted I am not going to say anything about him making an adjustment.  To define adjustment, he may pick the ball an inch or two off the ground and rotate it to adjust the laces position.

[stevestod]

I put the laces up for both teams; let them adjust it and snap the ball.  I have watched several teams that have the laces one way for a pass and the laces the other way for a running play.  With the laces up everytime it helps eliminate a quick snap (preventive officiating).

[RickKY]

If asked, I'll place the ball where they want when they're allowed to choose.  But as for the laces position, they can deal with themselves.  I let the snappers know they can turn the ball to get laces where they prefer, but nothing more.  If our high school kids can't handle that, then we've got bigger problems.

[Atlanta Blue]

This is amazing:

"If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off."

"To define adjustment, he may pick the ball an inch or two off the ground and rotate it to adjust the laces position." 

"I let the snappers know they can turn the ball to get laces where they prefer, but nothing more."

How are ANY of these statements recitifed with:

7-1-2:

The snapper may lift the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end-for-end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right
angles to the line of scrimmage.


The snapper can lift the ball.  He isn't limited to an inch or two, he isn't limited it to rotating only, he isn't to have his head bitten off.  He can lift the ball for rotation. and it's legal!

 

[With_Two_Flakes]

Over here in the UK, we worried about this sort of thing. Granted we use NCAA rules not Fed, but we asked our guest US clinician about it one year.
His advice was...
There's a lot more artificial turf fields being used these days and the wind can blow the ball away. Figure out which way the wind is blowing and then put the ball laces down so that the laces stop the ball rolling away. Let the snapper adjust it however he likes. Its one of the few things the kids CAN usefully pick up from watching NFL. Those guys adjust the heck out of the ball, the D don't react and no-one cares.
So whether you are on real grass or artificial, get into the habit of consistently putting it laces down.

The only time to care about ball adjustment is if the wings see the snapper come up to the ball and move it way forward. Usually its because the snapper is coming too close to the ball before he gets into his stance and has to move tha ball forward to get comfortable. One warning and if that's ignored then a flag will soon fix that in my experience.

[jjseikel]

If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off.

 

This is amazing:

"If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off."

Rest easy AB.
By using common sense and an intelligent determination of the rules, the above idiocy, if ever even contemplated by any rational thinking human, should simply be ignored.    

[GoGoGo]

Guys - thanks for your opinions and comments on this subject.

[RickKY]

This is amazing:

"If the snapper forgets and lifts the ball more than you like him to, gently correct him the first time, after that bite his head off."

"To define adjustment, he may pick the ball an inch or two off the ground and rotate it to adjust the laces position." 

"I let the snappers know they can turn the ball to get laces where they prefer, but nothing more."  (This is my statement, RickKY)

How are ANY of these statements recitifed with:

7-1-2:

The snapper may lift the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end-for-end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right
angles to the line of scrimmage.


The snapper can lift the ball.  He isn't limited to an inch or two, he isn't limited it to rotating only, he isn't to have his head bitten off.  He can lift the ball for rotation. and it's legal!

 

AB, when I talk to the snappers I explain to him exactly how he can rotate the ball according to the rule you reference, nothing more.  My point being, he can do it himsielf without asking me.  I'm not going to position the ball for him, other than soppting it, which I mostly do with laces straight up.  If he wants them to the left or right, he can do it.  How is my statement contrary to the rule?

[AlUpstateNY]

Rest easy AB.
By using common sense and an intelligent determination of the rules, the above idiocy, if ever even contemplated by any rational thinking human, should simply be ignored.    

It’s truly laughable how petty, picky and presumptuous some choose to get in responding to, what seemed like a fairly obvious, sarcastic exaggeration.  For those of you who interpreted my remark to believe it suggested actually contacting the snappers head with my teeth, relax and let me assure you it was intended as a metaphor, and no suggestion of decapitation was intended.  Forgive me for presuming that those reading the comment would have some personal experience with, the unique interaction and banter between Umpires and linemen and didn’t think detailed explanation was necessary.  I was also seeking to avoid some of the usual,” weeping and gnashing of teeth” about a lack of brevity, and assumed eveyone, reading this link, knew the details of the relevant rules.

Offering to place the ball, where the snapper likes it, is NOT intended as any big deal or “silver bullet”.  It’s a simple, easy habit to get into, starts the game on a conciliatory, helpful note and may (not guaranteed) help set a cooperative tone that can be very helpful, not only with the snapper, but with those around him.  If it seems uncomfortable or awkard, don't consider it.

It would be a lot more accurate, and oh so proper, to recite the detauls of NF:2-40 and 7-1-1,2 & 3 as repetitive reminders to a snapper who may be somewhat careless with his handling of the ball, but sometimes a simple, “Hey, don’t do that” accomplishes the same result without all the dialog. It seems to work better if that tone has somewhat been “worked up to”, however.

Sometimes (sadly, not always) if you’ve taken the time, extended the effort to establish an informal working (in the trenches) relationship with young linemen during a game, they respond remarkably different and more favorably to suggestion, producing results even better than by “intelligent determination of the rules”.   However, it may not be a good idea for those who may have difficulty lowering themselves from some, self constructed lofty perch above the fray, to communicate on such a direct level, nor is it likely they would be believable or successful in doing so.

[Mike L]

I was also seeking to avoid some of the usual,” weeping and gnashing of teeth” about a lack of brevity, and assumed eveyone, reading this link, knew the details of the relevant rules.

editted because after posting I realized I violating my own vow of not wasting my breath this year.

[Atlanta Blue]

AB, when I talk to the snappers I explain to him exactly how he can rotate the ball according to the rule you reference, nothing more.  My point being, he can do it himsielf without asking me.  I'm not going to position the ball for him, other than soppting it, which I mostly do with laces straight up.  If he wants them to the left or right, he can do it.  How is my statement contrary to the rule?

Because your post said he could "TURN the ball, but nothing else".  He IS allowed something else, he can LIFT the ball as well.

If you allow the lift, fine no problem, we are on the same page.  But I took it from your post that he could turn ONLY, and not lift it to do so.

We had one umpire this year that flagged our left handed snapper (on a try) because he rolled the ball to get the laces to the proper side.  His explanation was he "changed the location of the ball".  Of course, I was later informed by a member of his association that he was "teaching us a lesson" because of an earlier incident where we showed we were right and he was wrong on a rule (during that conference, the R even said, "Wow, I learned something tonight"). A real FU call.  Class act.

[AlUpstateNY]

editted because after posting I realized I violating my own vow of not wasting my breath this year.

Thank you Mike, I appreciate not having to deal with breath you refrain from wasting.

[bama_stripes]

We had one umpire this year that flagged our left handed snapper (on a try) because he rolled the ball to get the laces to the proper side.  His explanation was he "changed the location of the ball". 

Then teach your snapper to lift, rotate, & replace the ball as he's allowed to do by rule.   

[LarryW60]

Yeah, I didn't see anywhere in the rules where a snapper is allowed to roll the ball on the ground prior to the snap.

[VALJ]

The only time to care about ball adjustment is if the wings see the snapper come up to the ball and move it way forward. Usually its because the snapper is coming too close to the ball before he gets into his stance and has to move tha ball forward to get comfortable. One warning and if that's ignored then a flag will soon fix that in my experience.

Heh - that reminds me of the first snap infraction whistle I ever had.  Third and short, and when the offense broke the huddle, the snapper put his feet down straddling the football, grabbed the ball, and stretched it as far forward as he could reach.  They started at third and about 9 inches, and by the time the snapper was done lining up, the ball was a half yard past the front stake.   

[GoGoGo]

I sure hope you gave him the first down.

I have had a few wings call snap infractions on the snapper because he picked the ball straight up to rotate the laces.