Fumble in field of play, to rest in end zone

[#92]

Ball carrier A33 is running toward the Team B goal line. He drops the ball just inside the one-yard line and, thinking he has scored a touchdown, circles through the end zone and runs to his team area. There is no touchdown signal by any official. The fumbled ball hits the ground just outside or just inside the goal line, rolls along the ground in the end zone, and is declared dead there when it comes to rest and no player attempts to recover it.
RULING: Touchdown. The ball belongs to the team last in possession at the dead-ball spot. By definition an awarded fumble in the opponent’s end zone is a touchdown. (Rule 7-2-5)

However, in the 2016 Instant Replay Case Book we see:

First and goal on the B-5. A22 runs to B’s goal line, loses the ball prior to it breaking the plane of the goal line, and the officials rule touchdown. The ball comes to rest in the end zone with no player attempting to recover it.
RULING: Reviewable play, regarding whether A22 scored a touchdown before he lost the ball. Reverse to no score, A 2-Goal on B-1. If the ball becomes dead in the end zone with no team possessing it, the ball is placed at the spot of the fumble. If the ball is dead in the field of play, the ball is placed at that spot (Rule 12-3-1-a and 12-3-3-d).

Obviously the Case Book handles Instant Replay, but I would think IR makes it's calls based on the same Rule Book as the on-field officials?

[Hawkeye]

The difference is:

AR: there is no whistle and no signal so the ball is live until declared dead when no player attempts to recover the ball.  Thus the ball is awarded to the team last in possession in the opposing team's endzone ... touchdown.

Case Play: The officials rule TD thus there is a whistle and/or a signal. If the player lost possession prior to the ball crossing the GL, then Replay is ruling that there was a fumble and the there is no immediate recovery so the ball would be placed at the fumble spot.

[ChicagoZebra]

The AR is basically a unicorn. I have never (except one, below) seen an instance where everyone gives up on a play with a ball in an endzone and there is no whistle or signal.

Bill Lemmonier had a video he shared a while ago with the AR happening on a busted 2 point conversion return in a game in Mexico (yes, seriously).

[bossman72]

The AR is basically a unicorn. I have never seen an instance where everyone gives up on a play with a ball in an endzone and there is no whistle or signal.

Bill Lemmonier had a video he shared a while ago with the AR happening on a busted 2 point conversion return in a game in Mexico (yes, seriously).

There have actually been a handful of these plays (potentially) where the ball carrier has nothing but green grass in front of him and he drops the ball at the 1 yard line.  9/10 times the covering official rules TD, so the replay case book comes into play (essentially an inadvertent whistle). 

I do believe that if the on-field official correctly rules the ball was fumbled prior to going in the end zone, drops his bean bag and makes no other signal to kill the play, and nobody recovers, and they eventually rule TD due to the ball being abandoned, then I think replay would have to stick with that call.  The case book play shows them correcting an error in judgment (Official ruled TD when it was not).

[Kalle]

Do note that this is one of the few "real" differences in NCAA and IFAF rules. In IFAF the ball belongs to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble.

[ChicagoZebra]

There have actually been a handful of these plays (potentially) where the ball carrier has nothing but green grass in front of him and he drops the ball at the 1 yard line.  9/10 times the covering official rules TD, so the replay case book comes into play (essentially an inadvertent whistle). 

I do believe that if the on-field official correctly rules the ball was fumbled prior to going in the end zone, drops his bean bag and makes no other signal to kill the play, and nobody recovers, and they eventually rule TD due to the ball being abandoned, then I think replay would have to stick with that call.  The case book play shows them correcting an error in judgment (Official ruled TD when it was not).

That's my point - NOT having a signal or whistle is extremely rare in any version of this play I have seen (other than the video from Mexico I mentioned).

[Curious]

Do note that this is one of the few "real" differences in NCAA and IFAF rules. In IFAF the ball belongs to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble.

Would the NCAA rule give the ball to A if: on 4th down, A20 fumbled at the (1) B2 or (2) the B1 and everyone assumes a score, walks away, and the officials do not blow a whistle/signal anything)  and the ball eventually is declared at the 1 yard line with the dead ball spot being enough for a 1st down?

Yeah, yeah, I know it's academic - but interesting

[Kalle]

Would the NCAA rule give the ball to A if: on 4th down, A20 fumbled at the (1) B2 or (2) the B1 and everyone assumes a score, walks away, and the officials do not blow a whistle/signal anything)  and the ball eventually is declared at the 1 yard line with the dead ball spot being enough for a 1st down?

Yeah, yeah, I know it's academic - but interesting

In NCAA the ball belongs to the fumbling/passing team at the dead-ball spot if it is declared dead due to being at rest and no player attempting to secure it, so yes, team A can gain a new series if the dead-ball spot is in advance of the LTG.

IFAF treats these situations the same as if the ball went out of bounds (so you might have a safety but never a TD).

[Curious]

In NCAA the ball belongs to the fumbling/passing team at the dead-ball spot if it is declared dead due to being at rest and no player attempting to secure it, so yes, team A can gain a new series if the dead-ball spot is in advance of the LTG.

IFAF treats these situations the same as if the ball went out of bounds (so you might have a safety but never a TD).

Thanks Kalle.  I'm not a college official; so forgive the ignorance: so even if the fumble were forward (from the B2 to the B1) on 4th down, and no one went after the ball, A would be awarded the ball and a new series at the B 1 yard line?

[Kalle]

Thanks Kalle.  I'm not a college official; so forgive the ignorance: so even if the fumble were forward (from the B2 to the B1) on 4th down, and no one went after the ball, A would be awarded the ball and a new series at the B 1 yard line?

That's an interesting question. 7-2-2-a-ex2 is specific to a fumble recovery, so I don't think it applies to the situation where the ball is never recovered by anyone. So yes, I think team A would still get a new series.

[#92]

That's an interesting question. 7-2-2-a-ex2 is specific to a fumble recovery, so I don't think it applies to the situation where the ball is never recovered by anyone. So yes, I think team A would still get a new series.

In this scenario the B-1 is the line to gain then, right? If it were 4th and Goal, no need for a new series.

[Curious]

In this scenario the B-1 is the line to gain then, right? If it were 4th and Goal, no need for a new series.

But isn't the difference here the fact that if the ball was fumbled forward at the B2 and declared dead at the B1, A should not be allowed to benefit from the 1 yard pick-up - meaning the line to gain was NOT reached??

[Kalle]

But isn't the difference here the fact that if the ball was fumbled forward at the B2 and declared dead at the B1, A should not be allowed to benefit from the 1 yard pick-up - meaning the line to gain was NOT reached??

I guess the rules makers think that if team B is stupid enough to not pick up the live loose ball, they should not get a benefit of the rule designed to prevent intentional forward fumbles. In this situation team A is obviously not fumbling intentionally (if they were, why would they not pick up the ball?).