Penalty Enforcement on Punt

[ck4597]

4th and 12 on K45...K punts... While the ball is in the air and after it crosses the neutral zone, there is a block in the back by R on R's 30.  Kick goes into endzone.   There was disagreement within the crew as to where R would put the ball into play.  Would like to read your thoughts.

[With_Two_Flakes]

No expert on Fed rules, I work NCAA. But this scenario sounds like it meets all the requirements for PSK.

If we were talking NCAA rules, then the ball went into the EZ, so the PSK spot is the B20 (touchback). Half distance back from there gives 1/10 for B at the B10.

I always thought Fed rules were the same in this regard?

[LarryW60]

PSK applies as the foul happened during the kick and R will put the ball in play next.  Normal PSK enforcement is from the end of the kick, but the end of the kick is the goal line in this case.  We aren't going to award a safety for a foul that happened at the 30, so I guess we HAVE to enforce from the succeeding spot in this case (the 20).  Sure wish I could find the page that tells us that, though.

A  to whoever can find it!  When you come to collect, though, I'll be  (new smileys!  WooT!) 

[ckref]

case book 10.4.3 Sit C

[Curious]

PSK applies as the foul happened during the kick and R will put the ball in play next.  Normal PSK enforcement is from the end of the kick, but the end of the kick is the goal line in this case.  We aren't going to award a safety for a foul that happened at the 30, so I guess we HAVE to enforce from the succeeding spot in this case (the 20).  Sure wish I could find the page that tells us that, though.

A  to whoever can find it!  When you come to collect, though, I'll be  (new smileys!  WooT!) 

The PSK enforcement spot is the 20 yd line.  See CB 10.4.3F.  10.4.3 speaks to momentum....

[LarryW60]

Yeah, 10.4.3f covers it. (Maybe his finger slipped while he was trying to type "f" and got the "c" instead).  10-4-3 was no help at all.  All it said was the basic spot for PSK fouls was the end of the kick.  The casebook had to be used to give complete guidance on this play.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. I found my 2010 Fed books. I can't find a 10-4-3-f either in the Rule Book or the Case Book.

I can find case book 10-4-3-Situation C which seems to exactly answer this question. 
My case book only has situations A thru E for 10-4-3.

[LarryW60]

My apologies.  I was looking at the 2009 Casebook.  Situation F has now moved to Situation C.

Other Moves from 2009 to 2010  in 10.4.3:

2009 Situation A: Deleted
2009 Situation B: Deleted
2009 Situation C: Deleted
2009 Situation D: Now Situation A
(and so on...)

[Curious]

My apologies.  I was looking at the 2009 Casebook. 

Yikes! I only have he 2009 Books.  Our State Association, in their infinite wisdom (trying to save money), only gives us books every other year.

Thanks

[With_Two_Flakes]

Thanks guys...

[ckref]

I almost posted "F" since 2009 book is down by computer, but luckily checked the 2010 book first.

[hoochycoochy]

The PSK spot is the 20.  Fouls behind the PSK spot are spot fouls. 

[jjseikel]

 Fouls behind the PSK spot are spot fouls. 

Spot fouls in NFHS? No such critter.

[LarryW60]

Spot fouls in NFHS? No such critter.

Huh?  All fouls are enforced as spot fouls.  It might be the basic spot, the previous spot, the succeeding spot, or the spot of the foul, but there's at least one spot involved in each and every one.   

[bama_stripes]

Spot fouls in NFHS? No such critter.

Depends on your definition.  In common vernacular, "Spot foul" = "enforcement from the spot of the foul".

[AlUpstateNY]

Depends on your definition.  In common vernacular, "Spot foul" = "enforcement from the spot of the foul".

"A rose by any name would smell as sweet", and the "spot", no matter what you call it is where you do what needs to be done from.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: BTW...just to be clear, this (original play) is enforced as PSK regardless of whether or not the kick has crossed the ENZ. PSK window opens at the snap and closes when the kick ends.

[With_Two_Flakes]

.....PSK regardless of whether or not the kick has crossed the ENZ.

Really? Not sure I agree with you since 2-16-2-h-2 says the ball must cross the ENZ.

I agree that in the original scenario given it is indeed a PSK enf since all the five criteria in 2-16-2-h are met.

[fbrefga]

REPLY: BTW...just to be clear, this (original play) is enforced as PSK regardless of whether or not the kick has crossed the ENZ. PSK window opens at the snap and closes when the kick ends.

One of the requirements for PSK enforcement is that the ball crosses the expanded neutral zone.

[Atlanta Blue]

Really? Not sure I agree with you since 2-16-2-h-2 says the ball must cross the ENZ.

I agree that in the original scenario given it is indeed a PSK enf since all the five criteria in 2-16-2-h are met.

Bob is correct, but perhaps not clear.  It does not matter WHEN during the play the foul by R occurs, as long as it is before the kick ends.  If it happens before the ball crosses the ENZ or after is immaterial as long as the kick DOES cross the ENZ during the play.

So, to the OP, it doesn't matter if the foul occured before or after the kick crossed the ENZ, as long as it eventually did.

[Curious]

Bob is correct, but perhaps not clear.  It does not matter WHEN during the play the foul by R occurs, as long as it is before the kick ends.  If it happens before the ball crosses the ENZ or after is immaterial as long as the kick DOES cross the ENZ during the play.

So, to the OP, it doesn't matter if the foul occured before or after the kick crossed the ENZ, as long as it eventually did.

Once again, AB (the coach) has it right!

[Atlanta Blue]

Once again, AB (the coach) has it right!

Hey, Bob was the one that was right, I'm just translating.  Sometimes, officials speak too "officially".