False start or not?

[Brian26]

A lines up, QB in shotgun and RB to his left a step behind. All is set, just as QB starts his cadence the back leans forward and takes a step. Clearly look like he didnt intend to but no else moved and the ball didnt get snapped. RB got set again before the ball was snapped. Defensive coaches screaming for a false start.


False start or not?

IMO its not a false start if I interpret rule 7-1-7a correct.

[GA Umpire]

A lines up, QB in shotgun and RB to his left a step behind. All is set, just as QB starts his cadence the back leans forward and takes a step. Clearly look like he didnt intend to but no else moved and the ball didnt get snapped. RB got set again before the ball was snapped. Defensive coaches screaming for a false start.


False start or not?

IMO its not a false start if I interpret rule 7-1-7a correct.

I would have to see the play.

[bama_stripes]

Sounds to me like he either fell out of his stance or forgot the snap count.  Either way, we’d flag that for a false start.

[Ralph Damren]

Sounds to me like he either fell out of his stance or forgot the snap count.  Either way, we’d flag that for a false start.

Agreed, his coach saw it ,too. If you let it go, what if the opposing back  takes two steps later ?. Some suggested guidelines :

CALL FOULS THAT GIVE A TEAM AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.

CALL FOULS THAT PROVIDE A SAFTEY FACTOR . 

CALL FOULS THAT THE NEARSIGHTED GRANDMA IN THE TOP ROW OF THE STANDS CAN ALSO SEE. 

[Brian26]

I guess I'm misunderstanding the way the rule is written then.

7-1-7a. It is a false start if: A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.

It's the "at the snap" portion, shouldn't this be "before the snap" if the play I described is a false start?

[CalhounLJ]

I guess I'm misunderstanding the way the rule is written then.

7-1-7a. It is a false start if: A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.

It's the "at the snap" portion, shouldn't this be "before the snap" if the play I described is a false start?

The "at the snap" phrase is describing what the false start looks like. A false start looks like the action a player would normally exhibit at the snap.

For example, a lineman either "fires off," or drops back in pass pro at the snap. If he does that before the snap, he has "simulated action [which normally occurs] at the snap."
Hope that's helpful.

In your case, If the RB has "simulated action [which normally occurs] at the snap," then the lean and step is a false start. I agree with Bama and Ralph - I'm throwing a flag for a false start.

[Brian26]

The "at the snap" phrase is describing what the false start looks like. A false start looks like the action a player would normally exhibit at the snap.

For example, a lineman either "fires off," or drops back in pass pro at the snap. If he does that before the snap, he has "simulated action [which normally occurs] at the snap."
Hope that's helpful.

In your case, If the RB has "simulated action [which normally occurs] at the snap," then the lean and step is a false start. I agree with Bama and Ralph - I'm throwing a flag for a false start.

Makes sense, thank you!

[NVFOA_Ump]

Let's be careful here. Backs are free to move and reset at anytime as long as the movement does not simulate the start of the play. If for instance the back incorrectly thinks he is supposed to go in motion and quickly realizes that he is not I'm OK with that.  But, on the other hand, if that motion draws an immediate response from the defense then I would be throwing the flag.

[CalhounLJ]

Let's be careful here. Backs are free to move and reset at anytime as long as the movement does not simulate the start of the play. If for instance the back incorrectly thinks he is supposed to go in motion and quickly realizes that he is not I'm OK with that.  But, on the other hand, if that motion draws an immediate response from the defense then I would be throwing the flag.

I agree that each situation is different, and a back can move and reset. It's one of those "you have to be there and see it for yourself" situations. But in my mind, as it's described in the OP, I'm certainly leaning toward false start. Especially if the back leans and steps forward. If he clearly starts in motion, realizes he shouldn't have, and resets, then he's good. But as Al from Upstate is famous for saying, "What YOU see on the field is ALL that MATTERS.

[NVFOA_Ump]

"What YOU see on the field is ALL that MATTERS.

[bossman72]

This is absolutely a false start.
If he misses the snap count, don't try to bail him out and call it motion.

[animalspooker]

We fight this constantly in my association.  I argue that you have to give the back the right to go in motion or shift.  I say, this type of movement off the ball is not a false start.  Others say it is if it was an obvious mistake.  NFHS needs to clarify.

[CalhounLJ]

We fight this constantly in my association.  I argue that you have to give the back the right to go in motion or shift.  I say, this type of movement off the ball is not a false start.  Others say it is if it was an obvious mistake.  NFHS needs to clarify.

The back has a right to go in motion or shift, but he must do so in a way that doesn't simulate action at the snap. That's the key difference.

[bossman72]

We fight this constantly in my association.  I argue that you have to give the back the right to go in motion or shift.  I say, this type of movement off the ball is not a false start.  Others say it is if it was an obvious mistake.  NFHS needs to clarify.

Once you simulate the start of the play (aka flinch/hesitate), it's done. FST.  You can't go in motion after that, nor do you deserve the benefit of the doubt since everyone saw what your intention was.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Once you simulate the start of the play (aka flinch/hesitate), it's done. FST.  You can't go in motion after that, nor do you deserve the benefit of the doubt since everyone saw what your intention was.

Simulating the start of the play is 100% in the judgment of the calling official.  ALL elegible players can move virtually anytime provided they are legally set at the snap.  If the motion draws a defensive player to encroach then the “simulating the start of the play” is made for us.  Otherwise it’s OUR JUDGMENT CALL.  Nothing here is automatic.

[bossman72]

Simulating the start of the play is 100% in the judgment of the calling official.  ALL elegible players can move virtually anytime provided they are legally set at the snap.  If the motion draws a defensive player to encroach then the “simulating the start of the play” is made for us.  Otherwise it’s OUR JUDGMENT CALL.  Nothing here is automatic.

Of course it's your judgment call.  But motion is typically smooth.  If you hesitate at the start and miss the snap count, then try to fool us and go in motion, it's a false start.

[refjeff]

We fight this constantly in my association.  I argue that you have to give the back the right to go in motion or shift.  I say, this type of movement off the ball is not a false start.  Others say it is if it was an obvious mistake.  NFHS needs to clarify.

  If you false start and then go in motion to cover it up it was still a false start.

Not sure what needs clarified.

[animalspooker]

If I was a back and leaned myself into a forward movement, I would go in motion and sell that bugger!  You'd have a hard time calling me for FST.  Might screw up the play, but beats a FST.

[NVFOA_Ump]

  If you false start and then go in motion to cover it up it was still a false start.

Not sure what needs clarified.

So we have the original formation.  The running back who is behind the QB by about 1 yard goes in motion by taking a step (or 2) forward and then turns and goes in motion in front of the QB or alternately simply resets. That's 100% legal and at the beginning of the play can look like a false start.  Unless he is abrupt in his motion so IN MY JUDGMENT it looks like a false start I've got nothing.  Many shifts and repositioning by eligible receivers are designed to get the D to jump but if they follow the rules they are not false starts.

[AlUpstateNY]

So we have the original formation.  The running back who is behind the QB by about 1 yard goes in motion by taking a step (or 2) forward and then turns and goes in motion in front of the QB or alternately simply resets. That's 100% legal and at the beginning of the play can look like a false start.  Unless he is abrupt in his motion so IN MY JUDGMENT it looks like a false start I've got nothing.  Many shifts and repositioning by eligible receivers are designed to get the D to jump but if they follow the rules they are not false starts.

As always, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".  A local school had a bad habit ; when in a critical short yardage situation, they were somewhat prone to have a set back EXPLODE into a single step forward, then immediately turn into a lateral direction.  Was that an attempt to lure the defense into a penalty?  Strange, if/when flagged, it rarely/never happened again.  To quote Judge Judy, "Mine is the ONLY opinion that counts."

[refjeff]

So we have the original formation.  The running back who is behind the QB by about 1 yard goes in motion by taking a step (or 2) forward and then turns and goes in motion in front of the QB or alternately simply resets. That's 100% legal and at the beginning of the play can look like a false start.  Unless he is abrupt in his motion so IN MY JUDGMENT it looks like a false start I've got nothing.  Many shifts and repositioning by eligible receivers are designed to get the D to jump but if they follow the rules they are not false starts.

"Quick & abrupt" is a false start.

[NVFOA_Ump]

"Quick & abrupt" is a false start.

Agreed, but neither of those words are used in the original post that we are discussing.

[refjeff]

Agreed, but neither of those words are used in the original post that we are discussing.

I didn't quote the original post because I was not referring to it.  I'm not the one who changed the subject.