Author Topic: Interesting end of half play  (Read 4899 times)

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The Ref Thats Lef

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Interesting end of half play
« on: December 11, 2010, 06:16:04 AM »
Here is a clip of a play from a UK game last week. It should be the last play of the first half.



You can see the HC on the near sideline requesting a time out before the ball is snapped but on a four man crew the LJ is under the posts. It is likely he then shouts time out just as the ball is snapped.

The play itself has got some discussions going over here and there is an interesting 'what if'. I would welcome your views on how to handle the play as shown and then I will pitch in with the 'what if' when it seems a good time.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 06:26:17 AM »
Looks like an illlegal shift at the outset, not that it would matter much.  Was the departing player the 11th?  Kind of hard to tell.  If he was the 12th, then there was likely also a dead ball sub infraction.  Otherwise, if the officials do not recognize the coach calling a timeout there is not much to do.  Play on.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 07:36:46 AM »
The departing player was the 12th.

But why in the world did the WH blow the play in while the HL had his card out and was talking to the box man while turned sideways to the field?

Offline RedTD

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 08:07:08 AM »
We only see a departing player. "Could" have been a sub came in and he went out - in which case the U should have been on the ball. I doubt that was the case. I'm not as concerned as AB that the H is writing while the ball is put in play, we have all been there at some time. I do wonder what the U's signal is (hand raised above the head). My guess is that is his count signal. I first thought he may have been signaling TO but I don't believe so. Finally it appears to me the R recognizes (hears) the TO call by the coach (lower left part of the screen) and starts to bring his whistle to his mouth but doesn't get it there before the snap and lets the play go - instead of jumping on his whistle and shutting it down. If the L under the goal post or the R recognized the TO request before the snap then the TO should be granted. I would not penalize the defense for the hit since it is clear no whistles were blown. Was the coach trying to "ice" the kicker?

Diablo

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 08:16:15 AM »
Finally it appears to me the R recognizes (hears) the TO call by the coach (lower left part of the screen) and starts to bring his whistle to his mouth but doesn't get it there before the snap and lets the play go - instead of jumping on his whistle and shutting it down. If the L under the goal post or the R recognized the TO request before the snap then the TO should be granted.

Ditto.
The R has a finger whistle on his left hand.  It's clear he starts to raise his left arm just as Team B's coach gives the TO signal, all ~1 sec before the snap.
Did the R say he saw the TO signal?

Offline Osric Pureheart

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 09:34:03 AM »
I do wonder what the U's signal is (hand raised above the head). My guess is that is his count signal. I first thought he may have been signaling TO but I don't believe so.

The R and the U on this game are both rather, ahem, vertically challenged; if they gave count signals at hip or chest level then some of them wouldn't get past the players.

The Ref Thats Lef

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Re: Interesting end of half play
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 10:24:09 AM »
Ditto.
The R has a finger whistle on his left hand.  It's clear he starts to raise his left arm just as Team B's coach gives the TO signal, all ~1 sec before the snap.
Did the R say he saw the TO signal?

The ref said to me that by the time he realised a time out had been requested the ball was snapped. (just)

And yes RedTD we think he was trying to ice the kicker. It worked out even better for him in the end.