A "What If"

[ElvisLives]

We know that a fair catch signal made after a catch has been completed is NOT a fair catch, but it does make the ball dead immediately, and is placed at the spot where the signal is first given.

OK, ponder this one:
Kickoff, A-35. A88 B88 catches the kick at the B-10, then advances to the B-20, where he abruptly stops and makes a waving signal with one arm, but remains standing (ostensibly hoping to get a fair catch ruling and get the ball at the B-25).

Ruling:

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Would this still be considered an invalid fair catch signal? Or, is there a point in time or distance at which a signal is no longer considered anything?
Strict reading of the rule would tell us that there is no time/distance limitation for this rule. But, I just wonder about a player that runs 40, 50, 60 yards, then stops and makes a signal? Yeah, a true "what if," but we've seen equally strange things happen.

[Etref]

I would say ball dead and foul by team A
If not then we open a can of worms similar to the fake slide!

[ElvisLives]

I would say ball dead and foul by team A
If not then we open a can of worms similar to the fake slide!

Foul for what?

[dammitbobby]

I'd think that once the play has transitioned from a kick to a running play, fair catch rules are off the table.  You can only 'catch' a kick, not a run.  I see it the same as someone trying to fair catch, after completing a pass.

[ncwingman]

Rule 4-1-3-g suggests that the ball would become dead at that spot after the invalid fair-catch signal. Being an invalid signal, it is not a fair catch (6-5-3-a) and the ball is not placed at the 25. If he gave the signal to try and feint the defense and keep running, then it's a five yard penalty for delay of game.

I'd also pedantically argue that if A88 catches the free kick, the ball is dead immediately and no advance can be made at all... but I also know what you meant, because otherwise he's moving backwards?

[dammitbobby]

6-5-1-D:  The purpose of the fair catch provision is to protect the receiver who, by using the fair catch signal, agrees they or a teammate will not advance after the catch (A.R. 6-5-5-III).

IMO the intent of the rule is very clear , and it does not apply after the ball has been advanced and turned into a run.



Just for discussion purposes, if we're using such a strict interpretation regardless of the type of play, what about this: 

R34 catches a scrimmage kick, runs five yards, then fumbles the ball.  While the ball is loose, R34 gives an invalid FC signal to prevent K from advancing.  K recovers the ball and advances to the EZ. 

6-5-3-a: A catch after an invalid signal is not a fair catch, and the ball is dead where caught or recovered.

[Etref]

Foul for what?

Hadn’t had my coffee yet!
Dead ball

[ElvisLives]

I'd think that once the play has transitioned from a kick to a running play, fair catch rules are off the table.  You can only 'catch' a kick, not a run.  I see it the same as someone trying to fair catch, after completing a pass.

Officially, once the ball is caught, now you have a running play, even if the receiver - now the ball carrier - remains stationary. But the Invalid FC rule doesn't make any reference to a 'transition' from kick play to running play. But, the rule does say that a signal made after a catch makes the ball dead at the spot of the signal. OK. If he advances 10 yards, then makes a signal (while stationary or in full stride) - is the ball dead?

You say, "Oh, that will never happen." Maybe not. But, we do have video of a receiver making a catch of a kickoff over his shoulder while retreating, then stopping, pausing for a moment, then raising one hand high over his head and waving it from side to side - twice. (Then he started to drop to a knee, then changed his mind and took off and ran - but that's another story.)

Things like this do happen. And it would be nice to have the rule tweaked to tell us what should happen when they do. Maybe add:
6-5-3-e: No Team B player who catches or recovers a legally kicked ball and then carries the ball more than two steps in any direction shall make a signal following the catch or recovery. The ball is dead at the spot where the signal is first given. PENALTY - 15 yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S27].

Between 6-5-3-b and this, we'd have it all covered.

[ElvisLives]

Rule 4-1-3-g suggests that the ball would become dead at that spot after the invalid fair-catch signal. Being an invalid signal, it is not a fair catch (6-5-3-a) and the ball is not placed at the 25. If he gave the signal to try and feint the defense and keep running, then it's a five yard penalty for delay of game.

I'd also pedantically argue that if A88 catches the free kick, the ball is dead immediately and no advance can be made at all... but I also know what you meant, because otherwise he's moving backwards?

I love it when y'all catch my screw-ups. I do it so much, you must think I do it on purpose!
(I wish I was in Hawaii.)

[lonnieritch1981]

Rule 6-5-3-b states the following: "If the signal follows a catch or recovery, the ball is dead when the signal if first given (AR 6-5-1-I)."

[AlUpstateNY]

I love it when y'all catch my screw-ups. I do it so much, you must think I do it on purpose!
(I wish I was in Hawaii.)

Once again, Mom was right, "An idle mind is the devil's workshop" (especially during an "off season".

[Etref]

And we are bringing up a two month old thread for what reason?