Just dreaming up things

[ElvisLives]

Read the setups carefully. They are different.

(1)
2/10, A-40, 5:00 (2), A=7, B=14.
A12 has taken every snap for Team A, so far, in this game. After receiving this snap, and still behind the NZ, he hands the ball to A40 running laterally. A40 gets outside the numbers and throws a legal forward pass to A88. A88 catches the ball at the B-40 and advances to the B-35, where he fumbles the ball. B99 recovers the ball while upright and advances to the A-20, where he runs out of bounds. During B99’s advance, B60 led with his head and contacted A12 (who was then attempting to reach B99) forcibly to the head at the 50.

Ruling:


(2)
2/10, A-40, 5:00 (2), A=7, B=14.
A12 has taken every snap for Team A, so far, in this game. After receiving this snap, and still behind the NZ, he hands the ball to A40 running laterally. A40 gets outside the numbers and throws a legal forward pass to A88. A88 catches the ball at the B-40 and advances to the A-35, where he fumbles the ball. B99 recovers the ball while upright and advances to the A-20, where he runs out of bounds. During B99’s advance, B60 led with his head and contacted A40 (who was then attempting to reach B99) forcibly to the head at the 50.

Ruling:

[Kalle]

A.R. 9-1-4-IV to the rescue, I think (I would much want to have an A.R. for this specific situation, too, or the quarterback clearly defined in the rules). I'm assuming that B60 does not use the crown of the helmet in either play situation.

1) Foul for targeting and making forcible contact to head or neck area of a defenseless player. B 1/10 @B-35, snap, 25. B60 is disqualified.

2) Legal play. B 1/10 @A-20, snap, 25.

[peterparsons]

While a Quarterback may not be defined explicitly, I think there is enough in these ARs: AR 3-5-3-VI, AR 7-1-6-I, AR 9-1-4-IV AR 9-1-6-III, AR 9-2-1-III, AR 9-2-1-VI to be able to argue that A12 meets the requirement to be considered a quarterback in both these plays.

I agree with Kalle's ruling on 1).

For 2), my answer is "it depends". A40 isn't a quarterback under the implied definition in the rules, but may still have defenseless player for other reasons. Firstly the timing of the contact after the pass is thrown under 2-27-14-a (in the act of or just after throwing a pass), so there needs to be enough time for that to no longer be a factor. The scenarios read as if this is not a factor to consider. There's also the question of whether A40 had the opportunity to see B60's contact coming and could reasonably defend himself as per 2-27-14-g (player in receipt of a blind side block).

(As a side note, I'm guessing that A88 advances to the B-35, not the A-35, since the A-35 is 25 yards behind where A88 caught the pass.)

[Covid 22]

I am wondering how the receiver caught the ball at the B40 and advanced the ball backward to the A35.

[Kalle]

For 2), my answer is "it depends". A40 isn't a quarterback under the implied definition in the rules, but may still have defenseless player for other reasons. Firstly the timing of the contact after the pass is thrown under 2-27-14-a (in the act of or just after throwing a pass), so there needs to be enough time for that to no longer be a factor. The scenarios read as if this is not a factor to consider. There's also the question of whether A40 had the opportunity to see B60's contact coming and could reasonably defend himself as per 2-27-14-g (player in receipt of a blind side block).

Considering that the block by B60 happens after the fumble by A88 after an advance, I don't think there can be an RTP type foul here But yes, a BSB is a possibility (which I decided to ignore in my answer).

[ElvisLives]

Yeah, and that's the point I was driving at. Although there isn't a definition of a "quarterback" for this purpose, by the AR's, especially AR 9-1-4-IV, the player that gets this protection is the player in the 'normal' position to receive the snap, even if he isn't the usual "QB" for the team. But, there are so many 'ifs' for this situation, such as the holder for a field goal attempt, who tosses the ball to another player on a fake, and then gets up to participate in blocking, etc. Is he now the "QB"? Or A40 receives the snap and throws a backward pass to All-American QB A12, who then throws a forward pass to A88, and then A12 gets involved in blocking. Is A40 the protected player? Or A12?
Food for thought.

[ElvisLives]

I am wondering how the receiver caught the ball at the B40 and advanced the ball backward to the A35.

Fixed. Thanks.