Author Topic: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)  (Read 794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline refjeff

  • *
  • Posts: 542
  • FAN REACTION: +19/-30
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« on: August 27, 2023, 01:50:50 PM »
3.5.2 A charged time-out occurs when the ball is dead and: a. The request of either a player or the head coach (or the head coach's designee) is legally granted.

In our state, that has always meant one coach.  It says or, not and.  Does anyone, or any state, interpret that to mean more than one coach?

In our game Friday night the home team head coach said that he and his defensive coordinator would both call time-outs and the visiting coach said he and two of his assistants.  They were both surprised, but did not argue, when we told them the rule book specifically says one.

To be honest, with less than 2 minutes left and the home team losing by eight, I know that it was the DC who called time-out behind me and I did not establish "visual contact" with the HC before granting the request as the Case Book tells me to.   It did not seem like a good time to be picky.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2023, 02:08:35 PM by refjeff »

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2941
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2023, 02:46:35 PM »
3.5.2 A charged time-out occurs when the ball is dead and: a. The request of either a player or the head coach (or the head coach's designee) is legally granted.

In our state, that has always meant one coach.  It says or, not and.  Does anyone, or any state, interpret that to mean more than one coach?

In our game Friday night the home team head coach said that he and his defensive coordinator would both call time-outs and the visiting coach said he and two of his assistants.  They were both surprised, but did not argue, when we told them the rule book specifically says one.

To be honest, with less than 2 minutes left and the home team losing by eight, I know that it was the DC who called time-out behind me and I did not establish "visual contact" with the HC before granting the request as the Case Book tells me to.   It did not seem like a good time to be picky.

I always ask “coach, who calls timeouts for you?” The answer is almost always,me.” If he gives me someone else, or says “anybody,” I take what he says and don’t argue. I mean, for Pete’s sake, they are his timeouts. If he wants to let the water boy call them, I don’t care. I’ve never been written up for letting the wrong coach or player call timeout.

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 1275
  • FAN REACTION: +72/-13
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2023, 02:48:12 PM »
In my neck of the woods, we've never interpreted it to be singular. If the head coach says the defensive coordinator can call timeouts, we don't then exclude the head coach from calling timeouts. The common scenario is that there's one coach on offense and one on defense that are authorized, and the head coach is usually one of those two and delegates the other. If the head coach designates two assistants, then he generally watches the game from 30 yards away and not in position to call a timeout.

Granted, slightly more common is the head coach saying "Nope. Only I will call timeouts."

If the rule said 'and' it would imply that both the head coach AND his designee would have to call timeout together. Only one of them would not be sufficient.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2119
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2023, 03:08:16 PM »
I don't look back as to who calls it.  If I hear "TIME OUT!" from my sideline, it's getting granted.

Offline dammitbobby

  • *
  • Posts: 1195
  • FAN REACTION: +27/-8
  • I know just enough to be dangerous...
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2023, 10:46:17 PM »
I don't look back as to who calls it.  If I hear "TIME OUT!" from my sideline, it's getting granted.

This is the way.  While NCAA rule is marginally different (no designee allowance) if I hear it, I'm granting it, if they have it available. 

I've never really thought about this rule, but even in NCAA as well, it's crazy that 50+ kids on a sideline, they can all legally call a timeout, but a non-head coach technically can't.

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3310
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2023, 01:16:33 AM »
I've never really thought about this rule, but even in NCAA as well, it's crazy that 50+ kids on a sideline, they can all legally call a timeout, but a non-head coach technically can't.

Not to highjack the thread to NCAA, but that is an incorrect statement. A uniformed squad member who is on his sideline CANNOT call a timeout, only a player who participated on the previous down or an incoming substitute who is inside the nine-yard marks can. Rule 3-3-4 is pretty clear.

If there's an argument on this, please move it to the NCAA forum, and I'll come back with an apology if I'm wrong :)

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 1275
  • FAN REACTION: +72/-13
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2023, 07:46:46 AM »
Not to highjack the thread to NCAA, but that is an incorrect statement. A uniformed squad member who is on his sideline CANNOT call a timeout, only a player who participated on the previous down or an incoming substitute who is inside the nine-yard marks can. Rule 3-3-4 is pretty clear.

If there's an argument on this, please move it to the NCAA forum, and I'll come back with an apology if I'm wrong :)

This is also true of Fed. Other than the discussed (designated) coach, only a player may call timeout -- and that player is one of the 11 on the field, as per your definition.

While I generally grant any timeout I hear from behind me on the sideline, if it's not from somebody standing right next to me, I will double check quickly that it wasn't the trainer or an overzealous parent before granting it. If he's in the restricted area, in my ear, I'll stop the clock first and let the coach deal with the fallout if it wasn't who should have been calling it.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4688
  • FAN REACTION: +865/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2023, 07:51:43 AM »
I'm with Bossman on this....a time out requested from a group of coaches is assumed to be the head coach. If the head coach questions, you can respond with :"JEEZ, coach your assistant must be a good ventriloquist !!"      ;D

Offline refjeff

  • *
  • Posts: 542
  • FAN REACTION: +19/-30
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2023, 08:00:39 AM »
Ralph and i might be the only two who remember a time when only a player could call time out.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4688
  • FAN REACTION: +865/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2023, 08:05:14 AM »
Ralph and i might be the only two who remember a time when only a player could call time out.

....and before that, only a captain  tR:oLl tiphat: eAt& nAnA :sTiR:

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 3852
  • FAN REACTION: +100/-284
  • High School (MA & RI)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2023, 12:26:01 PM »
....and before that, only a captain  tR:oLl tiphat: eAt& nAnA :sTiR:


I wouldn't ever refuse to grant a timeout at crunch time because the "wrong guy" called it.  That's not a good career move IMHO.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2941
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2023, 12:47:45 PM »
Ralph and i might be the only two who remember a time when only a player could call time out.

nope, count me in. i remember those days.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2943
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: 3.5.2a head coach (or head coach's designee)
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2023, 03:33:53 PM »
nope, count me in. i remember those days.

Me too, also!