Illegal Shift? False Start? or Nothing?

[BoBo]

Having an interesting discussion on another social media site.

4th Quarter 1:28 and Team A trails 21-17.

2nd and 8 on Bs 40

After the first down play and the clock is running team A runs up and all 11 players are set and waiting for the ready for play signal/whistle.

BEFORE the whistle sounds A22 goes in motion from the right slot to the left slot.

While A22 is in motion the ready for play is now signaled/whistled.

Team A snaps the ball quickly with out A22 never coming set (he continues his motion up to the snap)

Is this a legal play since all 11 players were set for one count after the last play before A22 goes in motion even though it was before the RFP?

Or are you calling this an illegal shift or false start?

Some say that the ready for play has no bearing as to when all 11 players must all before set.  I am trying to find the exact verbiage but having no luck. 

I am under the impression the ready dictates all actions legal and illegal when it comes to this play.  But can not seem to find the support in the book

Any thoughts?

[zoom]

I agree with those that say the offense can meet the 1 second requirement for becoming set prior to the Ready For Play being blown.  This is relevant when the clock will start on the ready with very little time remaining in a period.  So long as the 1 second requirement has been met and the motion is otherwise legal, I have no foul.

In the Redding guide, there is a reference to 2-39 to an assertion that shifts may only take place between the ready and the snap.  However, there is no mention of the ready for play in 2-39.  Encroachment restrictions are clearly limited following the ready for play, as is the line of scrimmage (2-25) and neutral zone (2-28), the 25 second play clock (2-35), snap restrictions (2-35)(7-1-3), and players between the 9 yard marks (7-2-1). 

It may seem like it is against common sense, but shifts and motion are not subject to the Ready for play. 

[BoBo]

So you are saying the above play is legal and no flag on it?

[zoom]

I would not, and I expect that I would only see this play happen if a team is lined up and running a last second play following a penalty enforcement and they want to have a player in motion.  Ultimately, I doubt a team would run a player in motion in this situation however, so the play is a sasquatch. 

Another time I could imagine this happening is when the referee forgets to blow the ready for play (for example on the try) and then belatedly blows it right before the snap.  Once in my youth game this past weekend, I forgot to blow the ready on a 2nd down play after we spotted the ball following a running play (clock was still running) and when I realized it, both teams were already in position and the QB was calling signals.  My crew was also already in position.  So, I just didn't blow the ready (as I was the only one who didn't notice).  I figured it was better than confusing everyone, since everyone clearly felt the ball was ready for play already. 

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Ultimately, I doubt a team would run a player in motion in this situation however, so the play is a sasquatch.

Yeah, that. But we like to talk about such things, so...

7-2-6 After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.

Doesn't talk about the RFP at all. If it did, then you couldn't snap it immediately after the whistle - you'd have to wait for a second. So, I believe the original play is legal as described.

[sir55]

It is an illegal shift. The down cannot begin before the ready for play. A down starts will a legal snap or free kick. The snap cannot happen before the ready for play. All players have to be set one second before the snap.

[AlUpstateNY]

Could this be, yet, another effort to confirm how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Considering NFHS 2-35 (RFP) "Ref has signaled the ball may be put in play by a snap..." and NFHS 7-1-7 (False Start) "After the ball is marked ready and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player (and a reasonable argument can be made the action described violates either/both "a" or "b").

NFHS 7-2-6 advises, "After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop.....7-2-7 then details the requirements for "motion".

This situation could be perceived as a standard "cluster****", which violates either/both 7-2-6 or 7-1-7, Illegal Shift being a live ball foul and play would continue, wheras False Start, would STOP play. Either/both of which can arguably be considered to put B at an Unfair disadvantage.

Given that choice, stopping the action, for a False Start, which prevents any further complications from arising seems appropriate, and preferable (allowing the angels to dance to their heart's content)

[zoom]

Absent the motion, A team that is set and waiting for the RFP should be able to snap it immediately after the whistle.  Unless you are calling that a foul, I can't see how you can penalize the motion either.

[Ralph Damren]

Absent the motion, A team that is set and waiting for the RFP should be able to snap it immediately after the whistle.  Unless you are calling that a foul, I can't see how you can penalize the motion either.

Agreed,  7-2-6 makes no reference to being set after the RFP, just that they are set for at least one second prior to the snap. Let's not make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Atlanta Blue]

It is an illegal shift. The down cannot begin before the ready for play. A down starts will a legal snap or free kick. The snap cannot happen before the ready for play. All players have to be set one second before the snap.

Incorrect. There is nothing that requires the simultaneous set of all 11 players to be before the RFP.  If so, the game would be over if there was 0.9 seconds on the clock.

[sir55]

If I have a clock operator that leaves .9 seconds on the clock, he's walking home.