Author Topic: Overtime (Read 11357 times)

eprov · « **on:** December 04, 2014, 07:49:05 AM »

SO I was reviewing the overtime procedures and came across this: Pg 83, 5-1-1 "if the defensive team gains possession, the ball becomes dead immediately and the offensive team's series of downs is ended. "

Then on pg 84, 8-1 "If the defensive team scores a safety or touchdown, the game is ended."

If B intercepts a pass or scoops up a fumble and takes it back for an apparent touchdown we are to kill the play when B gains possession of does the score count?

ALStripes17 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2014, 07:55:50 AM »

Quote from: eprov on December 04, 2014, 07:49:05 AM

SO I was reviewing the overtime procedures and came across this: Pg 83, 5-1-1 "if the defensive team gains possession, the ball becomes dead immediately and the offensive team's series of downs is ended. "

Then on pg 84, 8-1 "If the defensive team scores a safety or touchdown, the game is ended."

If B intercepts a pass or scoops up a fumble and takes it back for an apparent touchdown we are to kill the play when B gains possession of does the score count?

When the defense gains possession on trys or overtime, the ball is dead.

However, it is possible (definitely not very probable) that the defense could secure possession in A's endzone (through penalties or A running the wrong way), so there had to be something to govern that possible score.

Bwest · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2014, 07:57:51 AM »

As soon as B gains possession the ball is dead. However, B could also theoretically score a TD or safety.

Let's say that after the end of regulation team A gets hit with a few unsportsmanlike penalties or DBPF. B wins the toss and elects to go on defense first. A starts their series from their own 30 (still 1st and goal). The snapper snaps the ball over the quarterback's head into A's endzone where:

A) QB A recovers and is downed
B) B54 recovers

In
A) safety
B) Touchdown

Both: Game over.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2014, 08:19:56 AM »

Thinking it through.....

If A is "batting leadoff" in the OT & B scores = B never has to "bat" as they have already scored & A hasn't.

If A is "batting last" in the OT & B scores = A ain't gonna' score and B has = game over.

eprov · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2014, 08:59:03 AM »

A batting first, B intercepts and scores game over?

ALStripes17 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2014, 09:02:14 AM »

If B intercepts in the field of play between the goallines, the play is dead and A's OT period is over.

ncwingman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2014, 09:30:08 AM »

Quote from: eprov on December 04, 2014, 08:59:03 AM

A batting first, B intercepts and scores game over?

Not in NFHS, unless (somehow) B intercepted in A's end zone -- 90 yards from where they started.

If A is on offense first, and B intercepts, the play is dead as soon as B gets possession. If B intercepts in the field of play, the ball is dead at that spot and B cannot advance the ball. It is now B's turn to go on offense, 1st&G from the 10.

eprov · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2014, 01:17:51 PM »

Thanks for clarification

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2014, 05:10:19 PM »

If b somehow forces the ball into his own EZ and ends up in possession of it or it becomes dead, that's also a safety, right?

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CalhounLJ · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2014, 05:11:04 PM »

But by A.

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ALStripes17 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2014, 05:14:27 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on December 04, 2014, 05:10:19 PM

If b somehow forces the ball into his own EZ and ends up in possession of it or it becomes dead, that's also a safety, right?

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Correct, A has 2 pts and their OT period ends

BBref · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2014, 08:11:01 AM »

Situation was incorrectly enforced this year in Pennsylvania.

From PennLive.com:

Jersey Shore beat Montoursville for the first time since 1985, winning 27-21 in overtime in week 4. The victory snapped a 28-game losing streak but came in controversial fashion.

Brody Smith intercepted a pass in overtime and returned it 94 yards for the game-winning touchdown.

Per PIAA rules, however, the touchdown should not have counted since the play should have been ruled dead as soon as Smith made the catch and Jersey Shore given a first-and-goal at the 10.

PIAA does not allow protests and once the referees walked off the field the game was official so the result stands. Jersey Shore improved to 4-0 for the first time in more than 20 years.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2014, 09:18:20 AM »

Quote from: BBref on December 05, 2014, 08:11:01 AM

Situation was incorrectly enforced this year in Pennsylvania.

From PennLive.com:

Jersey Shore beat Montoursville for the first time since 1985, winning 27-21 in overtime in week 4. The victory snapped a 28-game losing streak but came in controversial fashion.

Brody Smith intercepted a pass in overtime and returned it 94 yards for the game-winning touchdown.

Per PIAA rules, however, the touchdown should not have counted since the play should have been ruled dead as soon as Smith made the catch and Jersey Shore given a first-and-goal at the 10.

PIAA does not allow protests and once the referees walked off the field the game was official so the result stands. Jersey Shore improved to 4-0 for the first time in more than 20 years.

If this were in Oklahoma, there would have been a lawsuit.

In NJ, the officials were simply never heard from again. They are swimming with the fishes.

Rulesman · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2014, 10:15:40 AM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on December 05, 2014, 09:18:20 AM

If this were in Oklahoma, there would have been a lawsuit.

In NJ, the officials were simply never heard from again. They are swimming with the fishes.

...or sitting on the 50 yard line in Giants Stadium with Jimmy Hoffa.

VALJ · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2014, 12:22:39 PM »

Quote from: Atlanta Blue on December 05, 2014, 09:18:20 AM

In NJ, the officials were simply never heard from again. They are swimming with the fishes.

AB, I tip my metaphorical hat to you.

prab · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2014, 11:33:03 PM »

Wisconsin has adopted the NCAA 25 yard line overtime procedure. Since the ball does not automatically become dead as soon as B gains possession, the problems discussed here do not arise. We have our own quirks to deal with such as multiple turnovers during the same play. But then, our crew has not had an overtime game for several years.

One of the things I like most about this forum is the chance to see how difficult situations are handled in other parts of the country.

J12 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 07, 2014, 07:32:57 PM »

In NJ, we use the 25-yard procedure similar (identical?) to the NCAA. The ball remains alive if there is a change or posession and B can subsequently score. Any score by B wins the game.

VALJ · « **Reply #17 on:** December 08, 2014, 08:46:43 AM »

I've only had 2 OT games in 14 years as an official. The first one I ever had was amazing. The team on offense first scored a TD on their first play. The team that was one defense first then fumbled on their first play, with the other team recovering. Two plays. Good night, everybody!

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2014, 10:31:06 AM »

When B recovers a loose ball on a scrimmage down, and advances, the whitehat has the return all the way down to A's goal line. Not bad if the ball was at A's 10

....long journey if at B's 10

.

If B recovers a loose ball during NFHS OT = ball's dead = no journey

.

If B recovers a loose ball during PAT = ball's dead = no journey

.

I prefer our current "no journey" rules.

SD_Casey · « **Reply #19 on:** December 08, 2014, 11:24:55 AM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on December 08, 2014, 10:31:06 AM

I prefer our current "no journey" rules.

Rulesman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2014, 01:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on December 08, 2014, 10:31:06 AM

I prefer our current "no journey" rules.

Especially if you have EVER had to make that "journey."

VALJ · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2014, 02:16:27 PM »

I make the 90 yard journey enough times over the course of a season. I agree 100%.

HLinNC · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2014, 02:16:42 PM »

We had a crew down east blow this in OT on a strip/fumble and allow B to take it and score about 5 years ago.

They got a vacation from the state office and we all got a memo.

Curious · « **Reply #23 on:** December 08, 2014, 04:36:11 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on December 04, 2014, 05:10:19 PM

If b somehow forces the ball into his own EZ and ends up in possession of it or it becomes dead, that's also a safety, right?
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Quote from: ALStripes17 on December 04, 2014, 05:14:27 PM

Correct, A has 2 pts and their OT period ends

Not that the result of the OP as described couldn't result in a safety; but wouldn't it depend on what B did to put the ball into their EZ?

(The OP really didn't tell us how it got there).....

There is at least one scenario that could change that outcome. What if B's act that put the ball into their EZ was a foul (illegal kick, etc)? Wouldn't A have the option to not take the 2 points, accept the penalty, and replay the down - thereby NOT automatically ending A's OT possession?

ALStripes17 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2014, 09:07:31 AM »

Quote from: Curious on December 08, 2014, 04:36:11 PM

Not that the result of the OP as described couldn't result in a safety; but wouldn't it depend on what B did to put the ball into their EZ?

(The OP really didn't tell us how it got there).....

There is at least one scenario that could change that outcome. What if B's act that put the ball into their EZ was a foul (illegal kick, etc)? Wouldn't A have the option to not take the 2 points, accept the penalty, and replay the down - thereby NOT automatically ending A's OT possession?

We can play the 'what if' game all day. The result of the play is as stated.

Of course penalties change things (possible replay of down, yardage, clean hands). That's not the concept we are discussing.