Untimed down?

[skt101]

Last play of third quarter. 3rd and 10 on A30. A1 is tackled 2 yards short of the first down as time expires. There is holding penalty on A67 at the LOS. B accepts the penalty for holding. Does this create an untimed down or just start the 4th quarter with 3rd and 20 from A20?

[Etref]

Move to 4th quarter, but be sure to announce and mark penalty before changing ends of field!

[Legacy Zebra]

I can’t speak to NFHS, but NCAA this is an untimed down. Any period is extended if a penalty for a live ball foul is accepted and that penalty statement does not include loss of down. It doesn’t matter what period it is or which team fouled.

[skt101]

This was high school. So move on to 4th quarter?

[CalhounLJ]

This was high school. So move on to 4th quarter?

No! Extend the period for an untimed down.


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[Ralph Damren]

No! Extend the period for an untimed down.


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Calhoun nailed it. 3-3-4 lists the fouls that CAN'T  create an untimed down. O-holding ain't one.

[ElvisLives]

And this is a true "untimed down," i.e., a down played during the extension of a period, as described in rule 3-2-3-a (NCAA). Although the clock does not run for a try, a try is NOT an "untimed down." Rather, it is an opportunity for either team score point(s) while the game clock is stopped (NCAA). The difference is very subtle, I'll grant you. But every public address announcer and clock operator on the planet should know that the clock does not run for a try. However, PA announcers, in particular, but even some GCOs, may not savvy that the next down is an extension of the current period. That's why the untimed down signal was created (the finger twirl above the head), best given following the announcement for the penalty that will extend the period. IT IS NOT USED FOR A TRY! So, stop using it for a try.

[juxone]

Following up on Skt01 question.. but ending at the half... as the period ends (0:00) and during the down as A is stopped short of the line-to-gain on
a 4th downplay-- however B makes a late hit for a personal foul for a late hit. Since this would be a dead ball foul after the 4thd down effort and the clock expired This would NOT result in an untimed, but the penalty would be carried over to the kick-off in the 2nd half...if the foul is accepted.. correct or no.

[CalhounLJ]

Following up on Skt01 question.. but ending at the half... as the period ends (0:00) and during the down as A is stopped short of the line-to-gain on
a 4th downplay-- however B makes a late hit for a personal foul for a late hit. Since this would be a dead ball foul after the 4thd down effort and the clock expired This would NOT result in an untimed, but the penalty would be carried over to the kick-off in the 2nd half...if the foul is accepted.. correct or no.

Correct. Not a live ball foul. Succeeding spot which by rule is where the ball will next be put in play.


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[Ralph Damren]

We had a wild one several years ago (pardon me if I've told you guys about this before) that covers both live ball and dead ball fouls as period  ended.....

SCENE : 3/10 @ 50, 0:08 left in 1st half.

ACT I : Pass intercepted @ B's 30;
ACT II : B1 appears to be heading for pix-6 when B2  BIB @ A's 20:
ACT III : B1 now appears to be running out of steam and is pushed OOB @ A's 10;
ACT IV : A1 now  for late hit OOB, clock now reads 0:00 .

YOU MAKE THE CALL...

[bama_stripes]

A should decline B’s BIB foul and allow the half to end.  The penalty for A’s DBPF will be assessed on the opening kickoff of the second half.

[Ralph Damren]

A should decline B’s BIB foul and allow the half to end.  The penalty for A’s DBPF will be assessed on the opening kickoff of the second half.

YA' NAILED IT, 'BAMA   

[Kalle]

A should decline B’s BIB foul and allow the half to end.  The penalty for A’s DBPF will be assessed on the opening kickoff of the second half.

I would not even give any options but just announce this as an obvious choice by team A.

[Ralph Damren]

Where I like to flap my yap, I probably got into more detail than needed.....

(1) Asked both captains to gather for a discussion on this (pre 'ask the coach' era} while B's captain didn't have any choise, I wanted him to understand.
(2) Took both capts. over in hearing distance of A's coach.

(3) ME : "Captain, if you accept the BIB, we'll tack on your DBPF and B will have an untimed down @ your 15. If you decline, your DBPF will be enforced on the 2nd half kickoff."
(4)A COACH : "Do they have a good field goal kicker?"
(5) ME : "Don't know, but he kicked opening kickoff into end zone."
(6) A COACH : "Ayuh, spect we otta' forget about their penalty, then!"

(7) As I approached the pressbox side to announce, B's coach questioned....
(8) B COACH : " We git an untimed down, right?"
(9) ME : "NO !"
(10) B COACH : "WHY "
(12) ME : " Because they don't want you to have one !" 

(12b)TO THE FRENZED MASSES: "THE BLOCK IN THE BACK ON B.......IS DECLINED, AFTER THE HALF ENDED, THE LATE HIT WILL BE PENALIZED ON THE 2ND HALF KICKOFF."

I COULD HAVE SAVED MY BREATH AND GONE DIRECTLY TO (12b) !!!!!!

[ncwingman]

Due to conference realignments recently, there are several schools in my area that found themselves suddenly playing their "non-conference" opponents as conference games and for whatever reason couldn't find a different non-conference opponent in time. (Not sure why, realignment was two years ago? anyway, not relevant).

The result of this is several high school teams play the same teams twice in one season this year -- but once as their prescheduled "non-conference" game and the other for actual conference play.

At the end of one of the non-conference games, A is running for the pylon trying to score the game winning TD but gets shoved OOB as the clock expires. Following this, B hits A late and there's three flags on the hit.

After having to explain to A's coach that he doesn't get an untimed down, he asks, "Can it be enforced on the kickoff in two weeks when we play them again?"

Uh... no, coach. We can't do that.

[ElvisLives]

Due to conference realignments recently, there are several schools in my area that found themselves suddenly playing their "non-conference" opponents as conference games and for whatever reason couldn't find a different non-conference opponent in time. (Not sure why, realignment was two years ago? anyway, not relevant).

The result of this is several high school teams play the same teams twice in one season this year -- but once as their prescheduled "non-conference" game and the other for actual conference play.

At the end of one of the non-conference games, A is running for the pylon trying to score the game winning TD but gets shoved OOB as the clock expires. Following this, B hits A late and there's three flags on the hit.

After having to explain to A's coach that he doesn't get an untimed down, he asks, "Can it be enforced on the kickoff in two weeks when we play them again?"

Uh... no, coach. We can't do that.

Now that's funny. I don't care who ya are.   

[peterparsons]

I agree. That's a good line.