Don't want us to call a foul, don't put us in that position.

[ElvisLives]

Have seen some 'social media' complaints from folks about an illegal formation call made by an NFL crew in the past couple of weeks, with statements like, "Why would you call that at that point in the game?" And, "The player was told he was good." Of course, the complaining folks were fans/members of the losing team.

This is really simple, fans and coaches. Learn the rules. Know what constitutes a lineman versus a back. Stop trying to push the envelope in an effort to get some sort of advantage. This should never have been an issue. You know, if a guy is supposed to be on the line, why would he NOT want to be as far forward as he can legally get? What? You can't look down the line and tell - for yourself - that you are breaking the waistline of the snapper? (NCAA - don't know about NFL, but, they, too must have some line of demarcation.) Don't try to blame it on the officials. He claims he was told he was "good" after he adjusted himself. Baloney. There ain't an NFL official in the universe that would tell you that your position is good and then flag you. He probably got no response from the wing after he repositioned himself, and took that to mean he was good. Sorry. Not his fault. If he suggested that you move up when you first took a position, you got way more than you should have. In looking at the video, if you had moved two feet more, you would still not have been in the neutral zone. How can you not see that, and not get yourself on the line? Take responsibility for yourself.

Now, as wings, helping junior high, and even JV, kids get aligned is definitely something we should do. But for HS varsity and beyond, as wing officials, the only thing we should do is - using our back foot - mark the back end of the ball (Team's A LOS), slap our back leg, and state, "This is your line of scrimmage." You can certainly do this even if he isn't seeking your help, you know, get his attention with the leg slap and verbal statement, and hope he gets the message. At those levels, we aren't there to coach them. Let them, and their coaches, take responsibility for getting aligned.

For all we know, he WANTS to be in the backfield (and somebody else is out of position). I would never tell a varsity HS, or higher, player to "move up," or "move back." After the first time their position is questionable, I might try to get his attention between downs and tell him that, if he is supposed to be on the line, then move up - get on the line. Or, if he is supposed to be in the backfield, move back, to make it clear. Then tell his coach he has been 'advised' about positioning. Then, if you have to make a call, no one is surprised. They won't like it, but that's the most we can do for them.

Don't want a call to go against you in the critical moments? Don't put us in that position.

[Etref]

👍

[dammitbobby]

While I agree with you in principle, in this specific instance, when the ball was snapped, he didn't appear to be any further back than the tackle. on the end of the line.  Did he have room to scoot up?  Sure.  But at the HS level, I'm saying he's on, particularly after he scoots up 4-6" like he did initially.  That indicates to me that he wants to be on, and I'm not splitting hairs at that point - NFL can do that all they want, that's a level I'll never achieve. 

[HLinNC]

I've seen a little discussion about the play and looked at some clips.  I've never even spoken to an official of that level so I don't know what their philosophies and SOP's are, although I do seem to recall that most are a proponent of the "blade of grass" theory when it comes to the stagger between on and off.  I do not know how much communication goes on between WR's and wings at that level.

One thing to remember is that the NFL has some formation rules that go beyond just having 7 on the line such as they don't allow an overload on the LOS with an O-lineman in an eligible position like we might have in HS ball.

I did look to see if MacCauley or Steratore might have explained it on Twitter but never saw anything about.

As to HS level, I go against the grain I guess.  I've always communicated with the receivers and even the TE on my side if he is making an effort to make sure he is on or off.  If they want to stare in at the snapper, I'll give them their mark, warn them once, and then it is on them after that.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, if you flagged    that in the first quarter, then flag  that in the last quarter.

         If you didn't flag  that in the first quarter, then DON'T  flag that in the last quarter.
                                                                                                                                                     

[AlUpstateNY]

I've seen a little discussion about the play and looked at some clips.  I've never even spoken to an official of that level so I don't know what their philosophies and SOP's are, although I do seem to recall that most are a proponent of the "blade of grass" theory when it comes to the stagger between on and off.  I do not know how much communication goes on between WR's and wings at that level.

One thing to remember is that the NFL has some formation rules that go beyond just having 7 on the line such as they don't allow an overload on the LOS with an O-lineman in an eligible position like we might have in HS ball.

I did look to see if MacCauley or Steratore might have explained it on Twitter but never saw anything about.

As to HS level, I go against the grain I guess.  I've always communicated with the receivers and even the TE on my side if he is making an effort to make sure he is on or off.  If they want to stare in at the snapper, I'll give them their mark, warn them once, and then it is on them after that.

Agree with the HS level practice, unless and until the SAME player keeps doing the SAME thing.  I may even "try & correct him" more than once, BUT if he's ignoring my "preventive officiating", I'm going to get his attention with a flag, as many times as necessary.

[Etref]

HS level I would pat my leg and when they set, I would say “ you on/off” depending on where they located. After a few snaps, as they came to the line there were telling me whether they were on or off. Never had a problem.
But agree never told them the were “ good” as I didn’t know where they were supposed to be.

[TxBJ]

I did look to see if MacCauley or Steratore might have explained it on Twitter but never saw anything about.

Dean Blandino indicated it was an incorrect call and against the NFL philosophies.

[AlUpstateNY]

Dean Blandino indicated it was an incorrect call and against the NFL philosophies.

Unfortunately, Mr. Lombardi reminded us of a harsh reality, "We will NEVER be able to attain perfection, but consistently chasing it, may lead to achieving EXCELLENCE, which is worthy of consistent pursuit."

[CalhounLJ]

While we are on the subject, I’m watching a bowl game this am. The RT for Buffalo is lined up two yards off the ball. He’s even with the slot receiver who is supposed to be off the line. Why can’t we make the linemen get up on the los? Drives me nuts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ElvisLives]

Dean Blandino indicated it was an incorrect call and against the NFL philosophies.

Blandino doesn’t speak for the NFL, and, since he never set foot on a field as an official, I don’t put any stock in anything he says.
The philosophy is in judging whether a player is on or off the line. On that issue, I can’t speak to whether or not the NFL would say this was good judgment, or not. That isn’t an issue under discussion. What is under discussion are 1) did the wing official tell the player he was in a good position, and then called an illegal formation foul on that player, and 2) where does responsibility lie for a player being in a legal position?
1) I can’t say what verbal exchange there may have been between the player and the official, but I would bet a game fee that he did NOT tell the player that he was “good,” or in any other way indicate to the player that his position was legal. I refuse to believe that an NFL official would tell a player that his position was legal, and then call that player for an illegal formation foul.
2) Is it not the officials’ responsibility to make certain any player is in a legal position. The coaches are responsible to teach the players what are legal positions, and then the players are responsible to put themselves in legal positions. If a team doesn’t want to risk having an official make a ‘judgment’ about the legality of their formation that may not be favorable, then they should put themselves in positions that are clearly legal. It ain’t that hard.

Players and coaches: Stop trying too blame others for your failures. Fans: Stop trying to blame officials for the failure of your coach to teach their players the rules, and/or your players to comply with the rules.

[TxBJ]

If you don't put any stock into what he says, it is due to your stubbornness with him not having officiated, not his lack of knowledge of officiating and inside information.

[refjeff]

Have seen some 'social media' complaints from folks about an illegal formation call made by an NFL crew in the past couple of weeks, with statements like, "Why would you call that at that point in the game?" And, "The player was told he was good." Of course, the complaining folks were fans/members of the losing team.

This is really simple, fans and coaches. Learn the rules. Know what constitutes a lineman versus a back. Stop trying to push the envelope in an effort to get some sort of advantage. This should never have been an issue. You know, if a guy is supposed to be on the line, why would he NOT want to be as far forward as he can legally get? What? You can't look down the line and tell - for yourself - that you are breaking the waistline of the snapper? (NCAA - don't know about NFL, but, they, too must have some line of demarcation.) Don't try to blame it on the officials.

In pass protection linemen kick back to create a gap to give them time to see and pick up defensive stunts and twists.  The farther back they start, the bigger advantage they have.

Same is true in some punt protections, especially what you see in the NFL.

Some wing-T offensives like to set their line back to gain clearance for pulling linemen.

There are reasons.
 
I know what I'm doing and tend not to hear the complaints of fans and coaches.

[ElvisLives]

In pass protection linemen kick back to create a gap to give them time to see and pick up defensive stunts and twists.  The farther back they start, the bigger advantage they have.

Same is true in some punt protections, especially what you see in the NFL.

Some wing-T offensives like to set their line back to gain clearance for pulling linemen.

There are reasons.
 
I know what I'm doing and tend not to hear the complaints of fans and coaches.

Yeah, I suppose I should have qualified this discussion as being related to ends and backs, particularly those positioned several, to many, yards from the nearest lineman (usually a tackle) and not involving interior linemen.
As a wing official, have you ever had a tackle (in a 'normal' tackle position, laterally) look to you for assistance in getting aligned? I believe I can safely assume the answer is "no."
As a wing official, have you ever had a "wide receiver" look to you for assistance in getting aligned? I believe I can safely assume the answer is "yes." Have you then indicated to him that his position was acceptable, and then, on the same down, thrown a flag on his team for illegal formation because of that player's position? Because I believe that you know what you are doing, I can believe that the answer to that is "no."  And that is the essence of this discussion.
I refuse to believe that any official beyond his first season of officiating would make such a call, and most certainly not an NFL official. To have a player accuse an official of doing that in a public forum, where his word, without evidence, is taken as 'truth' is reprehensible. I am standing up for officials on this issue, and attempting to "bring awareness" to everyone as to who truly bears responsibility for these situations. That responsibility rests on two people: the player in question, and his head coach. The head coach is ultimately responsible to make sure his players understand the rules, and the player is responsible to make sure he complies with the rules, without assistance from anyone.
If a player can't tell where he needs to align himself, then he either needs to get more instruction from his coach, or he needs to find some other vocation/hobby. Stop attempting to use officials as scapegoats for personal failures to know and comply with the playing rules.
If, due to ignorance, a coach can't teach his players how to get legally positioned, then, in the off-season/pre-season, he needs to seek education from the officiating organization that serves his league/conference, or find some other vocation/hobby. Stop attempting to use officials as scapegoats for coaching failures.

Illegitimate complaints on the field during the game are politely ignored. Legitimate questions regarding possible rule misapplication are addressed immediately (even if it requires interrupting the game). Legitimate questions regarding rules, for the purpose of awareness and compliance by teams/players, are answered at the earliest opportunity that doesn't disrupt the flow of the game.

[RMR]

Regarding Blandino, the calling official is far more qualified to know what the NFL wants than he is. Just saying.

[dammitbobby]

Regarding Blandino, the calling official is far more qualified to know what the NFL wants than he is. Just saying.

You do realize he used to be the NFL Vice President of Officiating, right, for 4-5 years?  As in, in charge of ALL NFL officials?

[ElvisLives]

You do realize he used to be the NFL Vice President of Officiating, right, for 4-5 years?  As in, in charge of ALL NFL officials?

I know your reply is to RMR, but I wear the same shoes, so I am responding, too.

I am well-aware of Blandino’s work history.
I am a licensed architect. While I am my own boss these days, when I was progressing in my career, every boss I had was an experienced, licensed practicing architect. There are unlicensed, non-practicing academics out there that may have read every book on architecture, may know all of the various historical design styles, and may know all of the details about many celebrated buildings in the world. And they may know the bios on Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier, Christopher Wren, etc. I do, too. But that is very different than actually practicing architecture. There is much more to the art and business of architecture. I would never work for somebody that had not actually practiced in this business. The same should hold true for football officiating.

I would hope a fireman would not work for someone that had only read books and watched videos of fire-fighting techniques.
I would not allow anybody to work on my car that had only read books and watched YouTube auto-repair videos.

For all I know, Anderson has passed judgment on this call - but I don’t know what that judgment might be. His judgment is the only one that counts (this year).

But, again, we are straying from the primary point of this entire discussion. This wasn’t intended to be a discussion about philosophy, or correctness of the call, itself. It is about the covering official being accused of doing something that I would bet my career on that he didn’t do. I refuse to believe that he told a player that his position was good, and then flagged him for an illegal formation. Where is the proof? The player said so. Really? We’re expected to believe that?
Everybody screams ‘accountability’ these days. Where is the accountability for players that make false accusations?

The other half of this is the player/coach taking responsibility for knowing how to get into legal positioning, getting there, and taking responsibility for failing to get there, and not casting blame on someone else.

[refjeff]

Yeah, I suppose I should have qualified this discussion as being related to ends and backs, particularly those positioned several, to many, yards from the nearest lineman (usually a tackle) and not involving interior linemen.
As a wing official, have you ever had a tackle (in a 'normal' tackle position, laterally) look to you for assistance in getting aligned? I believe I can safely assume the answer is "no."
As a wing official, have you ever had a "wide receiver" look to you for assistance in getting aligned? I believe I can safely assume the answer is "yes." Have you then indicated to him that his position was acceptable, and then, on the same down, thrown a flag on his team for illegal formation because of that player's position? Because I believe that you know what you are doing, I can believe that the answer to that is "no."  And that is the essence of this discussion.
I refuse to believe that any official beyond his first season of officiating would make such a call, and most certainly not an NFL official. To have a player accuse an official of doing that in a public forum, where his word, without evidence, is taken as 'truth' is reprehensible. I am standing up for officials on this issue, and attempting to "bring awareness" to everyone as to who truly bears responsibility for these situations. That responsibility rests on two people: the player in question, and his head coach. The head coach is ultimately responsible to make sure his players understand the rules, and the player is responsible to make sure he complies with the rules, without assistance from anyone.
If a player can't tell where he needs to align himself, then he either needs to get more instruction from his coach, or he needs to find some other vocation/hobby. Stop attempting to use officials as scapegoats for personal failures to know and comply with the playing rules.
If, due to ignorance, a coach can't teach his players how to get legally positioned, then, in the off-season/pre-season, he needs to seek education from the officiating organization that serves his league/conference, or find some other vocation/hobby. Stop attempting to use officials as scapegoats for coaching failures.

Illegitimate complaints on the field during the game are politely ignored. Legitimate questions regarding possible rule misapplication are addressed immediately (even if it requires interrupting the game). Legitimate questions regarding rules, for the purpose of awareness and compliance by teams/players, are answered at the earliest opportunity that doesn't disrupt the flow of the game.

I concur.

[AlUpstateNY]

When first news of a hearing deficiency, I was concerned, but soon recognized what a blessing it could provide, especially as related to Football officiating (and Marriage).  The vast majority of  emotional, (stupid) negative outbursts are best ignored, and are often not really intended to draw a response, so not hearing them clearly makes them a lot easier to ignore. 

If they are REALLY INTENDED TO DRAW A RESPONSE, you can rest assured they will normally be repeated/amplified and YOU can decide if, when & how YOU choose to respond.  Remember "Your Mother's look", that one silent response to your snarky comment, that froze you into silence.  If you haven't already, develop one of your own that will hopefully prevent a whole lot of repeat stupid comments from ever happening, develop a "look" of your own.

Unfortunately, for some, repeating stupid comments is an uncontrollable habit, thankfully we have a variety of progressive corrective measures available exclusively to YOU, for assistance. The more YOU can ignore, the better both you & the sender will be.

A "last gasp" effort (EXCLUSIVELY for football, NOT Marital discussions) might be, "Don't make me do something I don't want to do", as it should only be offered with your finger on the trigger.

[dammitbobby]

I know your reply is to RMR, but I wear the same shoes, so I am responding, too.

I am well-aware of Blandino’s work history.
I am a licensed architect. While I am my own boss these days, when I was progressing in my career, every boss I had was an experienced, licensed practicing architect. There are unlicensed, non-practicing academics out there that may have read every book on architecture, may know all of the various historical design styles, and may know all of the details about many celebrated buildings in the world. And they may know the bios on Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier, Christopher Wren, etc. I do, too. But that is very different than actually practicing architecture. There is much more to the art and business of architecture. I would never work for somebody that had not actually practiced in this business. The same should hold true for football officiating.

I would hope a fireman would not work for someone that had only read books and watched videos of fire-fighting techniques.
I would not allow anybody to work on my car that had only read books and watched YouTube auto-repair videos.

For all I know, Anderson has passed judgment on this call - but I don’t know what that judgment might be. His judgment is the only one that counts (this year).

But, again, we are straying from the primary point of this entire discussion. This wasn’t intended to be a discussion about philosophy, or correctness of the call, itself. It is about the covering official being accused of doing something that I would bet my career on that he didn’t do. I refuse to believe that he told a player that his position was good, and then flagged him for an illegal formation. Where is the proof? The player said so. Really? We’re expected to believe that?
Everybody screams ‘accountability’ these days. Where is the accountability for players that make false accusations?

The other half of this is the player/coach taking responsibility for knowing how to get into legal positioning, getting there, and taking responsibility for failing to get there, and not casting blame on someone else.

Within the narrow context you defined, yes I agree that the official certainly didn't tell him he was good.  However, in the absence of a definitive statement from the official as to what was said, pretty much every one who isn't an official - which is what, 99% of the population, is going to believe the story of the party who's actually telling their side of the story.  I think that as officials we are very quick to dismiss announcers, coaches, etc. as being ignorant of the rules, but we do an awful job of explaining situations like this, which inevitably leads to more disrespect and abuse of officials.

To me what is confusing about the whole situation - and why I think philosophy is important in this discussion - is that the player clearly intended to be on the line (and arguably was on the line).  He scooted up 4-6", and was even with the tackle (IMO) and at every level, we we try to make them legal.  This wasn't a situation where the player was so far off the ball he had no hope of being legal.  But, without knowing the officials' perspective as to what he saw and what was said, anyone who is not an official, is going to believe the version that they are hearing.  So unless NFL philosophy is radically different, there's a possibility the official erred.  And if that is the case, then we (officials) need to own that too. 

JMO. 

[AlUpstateNY]

Within the narrow context you defined, yes I agree that the official certainly didn't tell him he was good.  However, in the absence of a definitive statement from the official as to what was said, pretty much every one who isn't an official - which is what, 99% of the population, is going to believe the story of the party who's actually telling their side of the story.  I think that as officials we are very quick to dismiss announcers, coaches, etc. as being ignorant of the rules, but we do an awful job of explaining situations like this, which inevitably leads to more disrespect and abuse of officials.

To me what is confusing about the whole situation - and why I think philosophy is important in this discussion - is that the player clearly intended to be on the line (and arguably was on the line).  He scooted up 4-6", and was even with the tackle (IMO) and at every level, we we try to make them legal.  This wasn't a situation where the player was so far off the ball he had no hope of being legal.  But, without knowing the officials' perspective as to what he saw and what was said, anyone who is not an official, is going to believe the version that they are hearing.  So unless NFL philosophy is radically different, there's a possibility the official erred.  And if that is the case, then we (officials) need to own that too. 

JMO.

Having worked with a lot of really fine, excellent, competent football officials over a LONG period of time, I have yet to meet a single one who claims to have worked (even one) "Perfect" game. Of course there has never been a Coach, player, spectator or "announcer" who has achieved "perfection" executing their role during ANY game either.  Unfortunately, officials DO make mistakes, likely far fewer than anyone else observing the game of Football.

We readily work with our crewmates, on the spot, to confirm, validate or adjust each others decisions to further minimize mistakes.  When necessary pause, collectively review and consult with our crewmates, again on the spot, to verify instantaneous judgments are valid and/or make adjustments if necessary after review.  The availability of near perfect, microscopic detail, slowmotion/stop action, instantly available video review, from countless angles has unquestionably proven itself FAR superior to ground level human observation of fast moving groups of people moving in different directions, and speeds.

Our job requires constant study, review, question and possible adjustment & fine tuning of comprehension of rules & interpretations to keep pace with ever evolving strategies and practices seeking to produce and capitalize on potential unforeseen advantages, a MAJORITY of which ultimately fail to comply, as intended  (or hoped for)  Part of our job, is to explain (as patiently as possible) why the newest, greatest idea or concept, actually fails to comply with existing Rules or guidelines.

Thankfully, the present scope of our game doesn't allow for formal instant judicial interpretation.  Spectator involvement in decision making has been discontinued since the "thumbs up/thumbs down" practice of the Roman Gladitorial games.  Unfortunately the "static" from spectators, Coaches, announcers has become a constant part of the experience.  It seems the best we can do, is to continue verifying valid questions as best we can, and simply continuing to separate, and IGNORE, the BS.