Author Topic: Balls & Ball Persons (Read 14086 times)

TXMike · « **on:** August 06, 2014, 08:25:41 AM »

Is anyone hearing any push back from coaches or AD's re the point of emphasis this year on having balls from both teams on each sideline? We have been doing the training sessions with clock operators and coaches on the 25/40 and that seems to be the biggest topic of concern for many coaches (right up there with substitution management). Many of them are very worried about putting their kids on the opposing sideline. The thought is that kids will be kids and there may well be exchanges that could get ugly. Coaches do not want to : 1 - expose their kids to such situations, and 2 - be responsible for overseeing the well being of the other team's kids when they are on their sideline. Even when offered the alternative of simply sending some game balls to the other side so they can be worked there by that team, they are worried that the balls will be "messed with."

bmtjim · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2014, 09:09:05 AM »

When this was first attempted several years ago, not only was there push back from coaches, but also parents. Nobody wanted their child/student where there could be problems with the other side's personnel. I don't think attitudes have changed based on your post, it is the same complaints heard then.

HoustonUmp · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2014, 10:34:10 AM »

Why does it have to be a kid (subvarsity player or coaches young kid) that has opposite sideline responsibility? I can understand why Coach A would not want a Jr High coach from Team B to be the ball person, but I am sure that there are responsible adults who would be willing to help their team by performing this function and having a legitimate chance to be on the sidelines for a game.

Wingmanbp · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2014, 11:55:45 AM »

I don't like the idea at all. Too many opportunities for trouble no matter who you have as a ball person. I already have to deal with chain crews keeping quite I don't want to have to add to that.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2014, 05:17:50 PM »

There's no reason to put the Home ball boys on the visitor's sidelines. Just have 2 ball boys on each from that team with 1 designated to handle the other team's balls. When the ball boy's team is on defense, he is the chaser. I'll go one further -- have the home side home team ball boy wear a dark shirt and the home side visitor team ball boy wear white. Opposite on the other sideline.

With this, the biggest problem is keeping them focused on what's going on in the game rather than playing catch.

Hondo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2014, 09:41:28 PM »

So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "Hell no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"

Rulesman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2014, 09:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Hondo on August 06, 2014, 09:41:28 PM

So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "HECK no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"

copedaddy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2014, 07:00:06 AM »

Why not amend the rule to home team supplies the game balls. Most districts would probably vote to have a "district" ball type used in all district games. Pre district games home team supplies. Period on option. Four balls with two on each side line with the team having their kids as ball persons. Perhaps the UIL could adopt a official state ball that would be used in all playoff games. (could be twisted into a big money maker for the UIL) That would get most teams using that ball.
OK, I know that I have a better chance of winning the Lotto, struck by lightning and attacked by a polar bear all in the same year, but, I can dream.

Rulesman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2014, 07:49:14 AM »

Trying to tell Nick Saban he has to play with a ball supplied by Gus Malzahn would be a tough sell. If one can successfully pull that off I have some swampy real estate I want them to list.

TXMike · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2014, 08:07:43 AM »

Quote from: Hondo on August 06, 2014, 09:41:28 PM

So what is everyone gonna do come the first game when coaches say, "HECK no my kids are not going to the other side and they can't hold my balls either"

Option A - Use your well-developed negotiation and communication skills to convince him otherwise.
Option B - Hand him this blurb form the UIL Football Manual: The home team should provide a minimum of three legal game balls, and the visiting team, if it desires to use its own game balls, should also provide a minimum of three legal game balls. The home team shall provide a minimum of two ball persons (preferably age 12 or older); one ball person should be positioned on the home sideline, and the other should be positioned on the visiting sideline. In this case, each ball person should assist
the officials with the game balls for both teams. The visiting team shall have the option of providing two additional ball persons (preferably age 12 or older) to assist the officials with their own game balls, if desired. Note: If the visiting team chooses to use its own ball persons, they must provide two persons; one to be positioned on the visiting sideline, and one on the home sideline. In this case, the ball persons from each team would handle only the game balls for their respective teams.
Option C - Recruit some ball persons of your own from the crowd and advise the coach you have your own ball persons and they will manage the balls on the other sideline. (I have recruited chain crews before when the home team's did not show or were not coordinated for. Just takes a little time to scope out the crowd and you can find the teenager or young adult who seems genuinely interested in the players on the field (even during pregame) and is not just there to "hang out." )

TexDoc · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2014, 08:25:23 AM »

Just an idea a little outside the box. Why not have the U hold an extra ball at all times from the team that is on O? You could create a pouch or something where the U can hold the ball on his lower back and pop it out when needed, then work another ball to him when time allows. When changing O's, you bring in two balls.

TXMike · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2014, 08:34:29 AM »

Not that much outside the box. When the Big XII first went to 8 officials they were going to have the 8th guy keep a ball in a pouch. Not sure that idea made it past the Spring scrimmages but it was on the table at first.

ETXZebra · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2014, 10:01:02 AM »

I like the pouch idea. I could keep a ball, a few Snickers and a couple bottles of Gatorade.

Joe Stack · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2014, 11:12:21 AM »

I thought a bunch of our guys already had a pouch with a ball in it. Oh, well.

Coaches are just going to have to pick: either ball boy on the other side, or the other team's handle their balls.

Hondo · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2014, 12:07:35 PM »

I think this is gonna be a train wreck. Sub-varsity is gonna be even worse. Between walking wounded on chains and clueless ball boys.

Key to all if this is for US to stay calm and work with whatever system we have that night. Even on Saturdays with7 officials, and 6 ball boys and 12 footballs things get mixed up. Even with experienced clock operators the clock is wrong. We just need to step back and realize this rule was not designed for 5 man and typical HS ball boys. Just have fun and let them play.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2014, 12:10:49 PM »

Since it's just "recommended" I suspect nothing will change this year.

TXMike · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2014, 01:18:40 PM »

Quote from: Hondo on August 07, 2014, 12:07:35 PM

I think this is gonna be a train wreck. Sub-varsity is gonna be even worse. Between walking wounded on chains and clueless ball boys.

Key to all if this is for US to stay calm and work with whatever system we have that night. Even on Saturdays with7 officials, and 6 ball boys and 12 footballs things get mixed up. Even with experienced clock operators the clock is wrong. We just need to step back and realize this rule was not designed for 5 man and typical HS ball boys. Just have fun and let them play.

Do we really worry about a play clock that much in sub-vars? And speaking for myself, at subvarsity I am not going to work hard for both team's balls on each sideline. If they want to do it, fine. If not, so be it

Hondo · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2014, 02:25:53 PM »

Mike- Exactly, we don't and shouldn't. But that doesn't stop some 7th grade "visor king" from jawing at our newer officials that we are slowing down their game. It's our job as experienced officials to teach our young guys how to manage these situations.

TXMike · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2014, 02:32:32 PM »

I hear ya and know what you mean. But it will be no different than most other complaints we receive at that level...consider the source. "You are right coach, the 3 of us trying to manage these 22 kids as well as those 3 no pass - no play players you have on the chains and the 2 suspended kids you have running the balls, is just not working out well. My apologies."

Cowman52 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2014, 06:22:09 PM »

The first UIL report that comes down the road that the ball boy from the visiting team was hassled, cussed, physically bumped, nudged, or what ever, some one will figure out this is not the best idea to come along. Can you imagine some 12 year old kid who tried to get the ball to an official and the third team tackle that out sizes the kid by 150 pounds runs into him and knocks him down? Accident, intentional,what ever, there is going to be heck to pay. And this happens at the end of the 2nd quarter and the coaches have 28 minutes to stew over it, I am not about to tell him it's nothing coach, it will be all right.

JasonTX · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2014, 11:16:46 PM »

Quote from: Hondo on August 07, 2014, 02:25:53 PM

Mike- Exactly, we don't and shouldn't. But that doesn't stop some 7th grade "visor king" from jawing at our newer officials that we are slowing down their game. It's our job as experienced officials to teach our young guys how to manage these situations.

One of the first things we taught our new guys was how to throw the flag on one of those "visor kings". First time they act like a fool,

Etref · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2014, 02:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Cowman52 on August 07, 2014, 06:22:09 PM

The first UIL report that comes down the road that the ball boy from the visiting team was hassled, cussed, physically bumped, nudged, or what ever, some one will figure out this is not the best idea to come along. Can you imagine some 12 year old kid who tried to get the ball to an official and the third team tackle that out sizes the kid by 150 pounds runs into him and knocks him down? Accident, intentional,what ever, there is going to be heck to pay. And this happens at the end of the 2nd quarter and the coaches have 28 minutes to stew over it, I am not about to tell him it's nothing coach, it will be all right.

I for one would not want any responsibility for the ball boys being on the opposing sideline.

fencewire · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2014, 04:05:40 PM »

So who is "harmed" when we can't get a ball when/where we need it, the offense. Theoretically the most likely time this will occur is a deep pass out of bounds that is incomplete and the ball bounces across the track and is left there.

In that case, the only clock in issue is the play clock, why make more of this than it is, get the ball in from the offensive sideline, if you can't get it down by 20 sec, we have the rule in place to pump the clock back up to 25 when the ball does get set and go on with the game.

If there is a case where the game clock is running, I doubt that anyone would notice any big time differential in getting the ball in from the offensive sideline. Would it be good to have balls on both sides? Absolutely, but I can definitely see the coaches argument about not wanting their balls or personnel on the other sideline.

Or am I missing something?

fencewire · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2014, 07:39:39 AM »

We had an inter-squad scrimmage yesterday where the coach wanted 2 full quarters of full game action (sans special teams).

They had one ball person, a runner and 3 balls. The ball person stayed entirely on the home side. Now the ball person wasn't a small kid and was attentive to what was going on and not playing on his phone or chasing cheerleaders.

They had their play clock operator there.

They had a few kids on the chains, so that was the only part that wasn't true to what we would get on fri night.

Over two quarters, out of probably 10 instances where the ball was incomplete OOB on the visitors side, there was one time that was even close to getting to 20, and that one was down and ready for play with 23 to go.

There was one long run up the middle that ended in bounds where the chains weren't completely set up at the next snap (down box was there, chain wasn't completely "stretched") and that was it.

The most common issue was getting the clock set to 25 when it needed to be, other than that, it was much adoo about nothing.

TXMike · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2014, 09:25:13 AM »

I would gues part of this was your crew's conscious attention to the play clock and your attempt to make it work with what you had available. If this change does nothing more than make crews aware of how long it is taking them that it is a success. As we know, we always were supposed to get the ball ready for play within 12 to 15 seconds. We just never had anything checking us on that before like we do now.