PSK

[Atlanta Blue]

It is NOT necessarily a post scrimmage kick foul.  If it helps, it is a post scrimmage kick penalty.  Or a post scrimmage kick enforcement.  Or a foul during a kicking play enforced as a post scrimmage kick foul.

But a rose by any other name ......

[Bob M.]

If you cannot have a PSK foul on a kick that does not cross the ENZ how can it be a foul at the snap? If using the window it doesn't open until the ball is kicked and crosses the ENZ.

REPLY: skip...think of it this way. We're not saying the foul occurs at the snap. When we speak of the "window" for PSK being from the snap till the moment the kick ends, what we are saying is that a foul that might subsequently be subject to PSK enforcement can occur anytime after the snap up until the kick ends.

And Fadamor...your question about the terminology "Post-Scrimmage Kick" foul is a good one. "Post-scrimmage kick" is not really a descriptor of the foul itself (rule 2-16-2 notwithstanding). Rather it's a descriptor of a type of enforcement. When people say "post-scrimmage kick foul" they mean a foul subject to post-scrimmage kick enforcement which could occur before or after a scrimmage kick is actually executed..

[LarryW60]

The definition of 'Post-Scrimmage Kick' refers to a set of conditions used to determine a special enforcement rather than a specific foul.  For the 'Post-Scrimmage Kick' definition to be applicible, all of the conditions have to be met at some time during the down.  This means some of the conditions can be met prior to, or after the actual foul and at least ONE of the conditions (the one requiring that K is not the next to put the ball in play) must happen after the foul.

Where we sometimes confuse ourselves is by referring to a foul as a "'Post-Scrimmage Kick' foul" when actually it is a "foul that occured in the midst of all 'Post-Scrimmage Kick' conditions being met".

My only real beef with the PSK definition is the fact that they've included the prefix "post-" unnecessarily.  It implies a specific time frame that isn't accurate for when the conditions can be met.

[Atlanta Blue]

Right, it's a "special enforcement of a foul that occured during a scrimmage kick down, when four specific conditions have been met".

But that would make the rule book 3 pages longer.

[LarryW60]

But that would make the rule book 3 pages longer.

That's never stopped them before!

[jjseikel]

The definition of 'Post-Scrimmage Kick' refers to a set of conditions used to determine a special enforcement rather than a specific foul.  For the 'Post-Scrimmage Kick' definition to be applicible, all of the conditions have to be met at some time during the down.  This means some of the conditions can be met prior to, or after the actual foul and at least ONE of the conditions (the one requiring that K is not the next to put the ball in play) must happen after the foul.

Great explanation.

[RickKY]

REPLY: RickKY...I can't help it, but I break out in hives when I hear PSK described in terms of possession changing before it really has. Mainly because I fear it will confuse the newer guys. Possession isn't really a factor in PSK except for one place: Once possession changes, a legal scrimmage kick ends and there's no more possibility for a PSK enforceable foul.

Let's summarize this way...a foul by R enforceable under PSK may occur anytime between the snap and the end of the kick. That interval is what people have been calling the "window" for PSK. Now there are still other criteria that must be met, namely: foul (by R) must occur beyond the ENZ; the kick must cross the ENZ, but doesn't need to remain there; at the conclusion of the down, K must not be entitled to next put the ball in play. Though the Fed doesn't like to say it, PSK is an exception to the regular enforcement rules for fouls during a loose ball play.

Bob, I would agree with everything you stated above.  Possession really is not issue for PSK, but the exception was instituted because K has decided to give up possession by choosing to kick the ball away.  That is why we now enforce the foul as PSK instead of as a previous spot loose ball foul.