How's it going for those in the Bay State ??

[Ralph Damren]

While we all were faced with the advent of the 40" clock (except those in experimental states) , our friends from the commonwealth have had to learn over 300 rule differences with NFHS. Referee Mag. has a very good article on this and I'm checking to see how it's going from those from Mass. ......

[NVFOA_Ump]

So far so good.  No major issues that we've heard of and our assigning commissioner (who has 34+/- schools) who we see every week at our meetings is not inundating us with coach's complaints and game films of our mistakes.  1 failure to kill a defensive encroachment and one failure to kill a blocked try that was run back a short distance.  If we messed up any penalty enforcements I'm guessing that the coaches did not notice since we've had no "formal" complaints.  That being said, our games so far have been "non-league" with the "real" league games starting this week and next.  We'll see how it goes as we move forward.

[toma]

No major issues so far. Had a fans complain we didn't enforce an automatic first down on a DPI. It was 2nd an 18 and just marched off 15. 
I guess coaches are still learning the rules so complaining YET. 

[Ralph Damren]

Glad to read that you guys are handling the change smoothly. I think of you guys when I hear our guys gripe about the 40" clock which is also running smoother than I felt it would. IMHO, the Rule 10 (penalty enforcement) differences will be the biggest challenge. Several years ago we were told that NFHS had 16 exceptions under penalty enforcement while NCAA had +70. For a new guy learning, it will be easier to get a handle. For the veteran official it, it will require a change in mind-set. I'm sure you'll be able to adjust just as we do on "40 clock.    Good Luck.

[Bigfrizz81]

My first game last Friday was ok. Have to get used to the total game time which ended up being 2.5 hours!! I just have to remember the whole blow and throw which made things run a bit longer. I just don't want to make a Friday call on Saturday which is the fear of a lot of officials I officiate with.

[CalhounLJ]

Is that longer or shorter than normal? Sounds like normal game time around here.


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[Ralph Damren]

Is that longer or shorter than normal? Sounds like normal game time around here.


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We were told by the experimenting states that the length of game didn't really differ. Two noticeable events were mentioned :

(1) Fewer DOG fouls;

(2) Fewer number of plays needed from victory formation.

We will still have the 1:50 games...we also will still have the 3:00 games. When we go running time the 2nd half lasts about a half hour.

[Bigfrizz81]

Is that longer or shorter than normal? Sounds like normal game time around here.

Its longer. I'm hoping that it was just an anomaly though. We did have a few DOG calls even when being liberal with the play clock. We also got some heckling over some OPI and DH calls that didn't result in automatic first downs but oh well.

[CalhounLJ]

Yeah I can imagine how that went. I’m late to the conversation- what made the powers that be want to change codes?


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[Bigfrizz81]

Yeah I can imagine how that went. I’m late to the conversation- what made the powers that be want to change codes?


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Word is that the "powers that be" wanted a seat at the FED table. The problem that us officials have is that the change didn't have to occur overnight if it needed to change. A lot of officials don't feel prepared enough for the season. I went to several rules clinics in the spring and summer with some out of state interpreters and the biggest take away was "use common sense". Needless to say it wasn't that helpful to the coaches and officials in attendance.

[CalhounLJ]

Word is that the "powers that be" wanted a seat at the FED table. The problem that us officials have is that the change didn't have to occur overnight if it needed to change. A lot of officials don't feel prepared enough for the season. I went to several rules clinics in the spring and summer with some out of state interpreters and the biggest take away was "use common sense". Needless to say it wasn't that helpful to the coaches and officials in attendance.

I understand. One reason I never pursued college officiating was the differences in the rules. There’s just enough to keep you guessing. We had a deep wing who also works college work a playoff game with us and mechanically he was top notch. But he kept questioning my penalty enforcement. Most of it was foreign to him because of the different codes.


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[Bigfrizz81]

I officiate college as well. I'm not really worried about making a mistake in the college game. I think i'm more likely to apply NCAA enforcement to a high school game. To be honest if I did no one would even know because its all so new.

[CalhounLJ]

I officiate college as well. I'm not really worried about making a mistake in the college game. I think i'm more likely to apply NCAA enforcement to a high school game. To be honest if I did no one would even know because its all so new.

I agree. My experience with the deep wing guy made me believe his WH on Friday night (who is the same WH in his Saturday games) is using NCAA enforcements on Friday night.

[NVFOA_Ump]

So maybe not quite so well?  Rumors came to fruition last night when one of the teams in the Mayflower League (17 schools in Division 8 - MA's lowest enrollment division) declined to play a game where the home team insisted on playing 12 minute quarters.  This past summer the majority of the league AD's had voted (twice at 2 different meetings) to continue their games using 10 minute quarters (as the Mayflower League has played for many years).

For some history, prior to 2019, the MIAA has always allowed the individual leagues to select the length of quarters (from either 10, 11, or 12 mins) for high school varsity contests. The result of that has been that the schools pretty much followed the enrollment numbers to determine length of quarters where higher divisions played 12 mins, mid-level divisions played 11 mins, and lower levels played 10 mins.  Additionally, MA allowed 5 timeouts per half (3 full TO's and 2-30 sec TO's) which also changed this year (to NFHS 3 TO's per half).  We've been told that MIAA had formally requested "waivers" for both the length of periods and for the 5 TO's, but the request was denied by NFHS.

Not sure where this is going but stay tuned.  (See attachment)

[Tobes]

So maybe not quite so well?  Rumors came to fruition last night when one of the teams in the Mayflower League (17 schools in Division 8 - MA's lowest enrollment division) declined to play a game where the home team insisted on playing 12 minute quarters.  This past summer the majority of the league AD's had voted (twice at 2 different meetings) to continue their games using 10 minute quarters (as the Mayflower League has played for many years).

For some history, prior to 2019, the MIAA has always allowed the individual leagues to select the length of quarters (from either 10, 11, or 12 mins) for high school varsity contests. The result of that has been that the schools pretty much followed the enrollment numbers to determine length of quarters where higher divisions played 12 mins, mid-level divisions played 11 mins, and lower levels played 10 mins.  Additionally, MA allowed 5 timeouts per half (3 full TO's and 2-30 sec TO's) which also changed this year (to NFHS 3 TO's per half).  We've been told that MIAA had formally requested "waivers" for both the length of periods and for the 5 TO's, but the request was denied by NFHS.

Not sure where this is going but stay tuned.  (See attachment)

Yes. It was South Shore Voke.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/09/19/south-shore-decides-not-to-play-its-football-against-west-bridgewater-friday/

[ncwingman]

We've been told that MIAA had formally requested "waivers" for both the length of periods and for the 5 TO's, but the request was denied by NFHS.

Not sure where this is going but stay tuned.  (See attachment)

But... Rule 3.1.3 states that any period may be shortened with mutual agreement of the head coaches and officials. Fundamentally, you don't need a waiver for that.

Obviously, in this case, you didn't have the agreement since one team wanted 10 minute and the other wanted 12 minutes. The 5 TO thing is also.... unique in my experience.

[ilyazhito]

Even more unique if you consider that basketball in Massachusetts uses 5 60-second timeouts in a game, instead of the standard 3 60 and 2 30-second timeouts. MA is full of all sorts of weird modifications to the rules (such as the floating quarter lengths for football in prior years).

IMO, I would have preferred for MA to remain NCAA rules, if only to have some place other than Texas playing high school football by college rules. It would be much easier to move from high school to NCAA if the only difference was mechanics instead of mechanics and rules. Oh, well.

[Tobes]

Even more unique if you consider that basketball in Massachusetts uses 5 60-second timeouts in a game, instead of the standard 3 60 and 2 30-second timeouts. MA is full of all sorts of weird modifications to the rules (such as the floating quarter lengths for football in prior years).

IMO, I would have preferred for MA to remain NCAA rules, if only to have some place other than Texas playing high school football by college rules. It would be much easier to move from high school to NCAA if the only difference was mechanics instead of mechanics and rules. Oh, well.

Until about 12 years or so ago, Mass. also played basketball with 16-minute halves.

in baseball, some leagues played nine-inning games, too.

[NVFOA_Ump]

But... Rule 3.1.3 states that any period may be shortened with mutual agreement of the head coaches and officials. Fundamentally, you don't need a waiver for that.

Again, we've been told that we (MA) were officially denied the "required" NFHS waiver to continue our longstanding practice of allowing each league to set their times (10, 11, or 12 minute periods) for the 2019 season.  We've also been told that Rule 3.1.3 applies to an individual in game situation with specific time issues and not a blanket "before the season starts" decision to play all games with less than 12 minute quarters.   

[zebrastripes]

The "safety" arguments against playing 12-minute quarters make me cackle.

[CalhounLJ]

Me too. We play 12:00 quarters here in the Deep South with no problems so it can’t be heat related.


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[NVFOA_Ump]

Me too. We play 12:00 quarters here in the Deep South with no problems so it can’t be heat related.
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Not sure of your exact circumstances but it's not just a heat issue.  There are many of the smaller schools with total enrollments of 400-500 students (4 grades both boys and girls) that have 25-30 players with 12-15 of those players who play virtually the whole game both ways.  We don't have the "smaller" (6 man or 8 man) teams in MA like so many other states have.  That's a safety issue in all codes at all levels.  The shorter periods was just an attempt to minimize at least a little bit the amount of contact per player per game.

[zebrastripes]

Not sure of your exact circumstances but it's not just a heat issue.  There are many of the smaller schools with total enrollments of 400-500 students (4 grades both boys and girls) that have 25-30 players with 12-15 of those players who play virtually the whole game both ways.  We don't have the "smaller" (6 man or 8 man) teams in MA like so many other states have.  That's a safety issue in all codes at all levels.  The shorter periods was just an attempt to minimize at least a little bit the amount of contact per player per game.

My high school had 300 and played 12:00 quarters. Still does. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Sorry, but I simply refuse to believe that playing 4 extra minutes per game is going to compromise anyone's safety.

49 other states play 12-minute quarters with no issue. I find it hard to believe circumstances in Massachusetts warrant sparing "the poor kids" from those extra 4 minutes.

Then again, Massachusetts is the state that requires basketball officials to observe the postgame handshake, so nonsense like this doesn't surprise me.

[Morningrise]

In my games so far...

- Failed to carry over DPI on a successful 2-point conversion to the kickoff. Oops

- Have seen very, very few low blocks, even legal ones. I think coaches are scared to teach it.

- A team tried to have the FG holder pitch the ball to the kicker while kneeling. Luckily I wasn't the WH in this game because I didn't know that rule either. Now I do, though.

- Still not sure whether we're required to have a halftime countdown and then put three minutes on the clock and count down again, or whether we can just tell the coaches "when it says 3:00, that's the start of the warmup period". Is this a legal thing where if a player gets hurt in the second half they sue the officials? But if we do halftime in two parts we're not liable? Seems like the "mandatory" aspect of the warmup period should be a requirement that's binding on the coach, not on the officials. I can't force the players to do stretches, after all.

- There was a rumor going around that "defer" is not an option in Fed. Hopefully that got quashed by now.

- Everyone in stripes loves the 40-second play clock. Maybe these snowflake coaches are right that the number of PLAYS in a Massachusetts quarter has gone up, but I can tell you the number of actual MINUTES in a Massachusetts quarter has gone down if anything. First down, kill it and WIND IT - this more than compensates for the extra game clock minutes.

- We've already shut down multiple extra point attempts for defensive encroachment. The kick sails through the uprights as the whistles blow. K's coach doesn't always appreciate this rule but they'll get used to it. Frankly if I were a coach, I'd teach R to guess the snap and not be afraid to jump early. Best case, you time it right and the officials don't even call it. Worst case, you get to ice the kicker without taking a timeout. It's almost free. The only drawback is he gets to kick it from the 1.5 yard line instead, which might not even be all that advantageous for him, now that it's not the exact yard line he's practiced a thousand times. And the ACTUAL best case, maybe you mess with his head and cause a miss.

- Related: Lots of griping from coaches and officials that "Fed hates offense." To wit: If an OL holds, it becomes 1st and 26 or something, but if the defense jumps offside you don't even get a free play out of it. We'll all "get used to it" but I doubt we'll ever LIKE it.

- One personal gripe: I can't stand not having a PDF rulebook

[zebrastripes]

- Still not sure whether we're required to have a halftime countdown and then put three minutes on the clock and count down again, or whether we can just tell the coaches "when it says 3:00, that's the start of the warmup period". Is this a legal thing where if a player gets hurt in the second half they sue the officials? But if we do halftime in two parts we're not liable? Seems like the "mandatory" aspect of the warmup period should be a requirement that's binding on the coach, not on the officials. I can't force the players to do stretches, after all.

Pretty sure there's a FED case play that says the mandatory three minutes must be put up and started separately after the "normal" halftime.

If not, almost all states do it that way.

We're just told that the 3:00 must be given. It's on the coaches to decide what to do with it.