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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: J12 on September 25, 2016, 11:18:20 AM
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1) Does "Holding" LITERALLY have to be "Holding"?
I saw a punt with a nice return where a member of R blocked a member of K by simply lying on top of him. I didn't see how they went to the ground, but as the returner ran through the area, we had a big lineman from R lying on top of a smaller man from K. This clearly was not a situation of someone getting up slowly. This was clearly a big guy with both hands and both feet on the ground lying on top of a helpless smaller guy. But he wasn't LITERALLY HOLDING him.
It was flagged for holding.
2) A 4th & 5 at B 20. QB goes under center and then stands up looking confused with both hands in the air. He looks like he's about to call timeout, but then jogs perhaps 4 steps toward his bench, leans toward his bench with his hands up and looking confused. QB's motion is not forward and he is the only one moving. The ball is then snapped directly to RB. The RB muffs the snap so the play ends in a loss anyway, but there was no flag. I thought these kinds of plays were outlawed. This was a superbly officiated game, but I'm thinking they missed one here.
3) A runs it in for a TD but it's called back for holding. Penalty is accepted, of course, and marked off. Clock was started on the SNAP. That is correct because the result of the play was a score which is a clock stoppage?
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1) Does "Holding" LITERALLY have to be "Holding"?
I saw a punt with a nice return where a member of R blocked a member of K by simply lying on top of him. I didn't see how they went to the ground, but as the returner ran through the area, we had a big lineman from R lying on top of a smaller man from K. This clearly was not a situation of someone getting up slowly. This was clearly a big guy with both hands and both feet on the ground lying on top of a helpless smaller guy. But he wasn't LITERALLY HOLDING him.
It was flagged for holding.
How they got to the ground may be pretty key information....perhaps he got tackled to the ground and all you saw was the resultant laying, but it was the takedown that drew the flag. Unless you see the whole play, how can you say whether the call was correct or not?
2) A 4th & 5 at B 20. QB goes under center and then stands up looking confused with both hands in the air. He looks like he's about to call timeout, but then jogs perhaps 4 steps toward his bench, leans toward his bench with his hands up and looking confused. QB's motion is not forward and he is the only one moving. The ball is then snapped directly to RB. The RB muffs the snap so the play ends in a loss anyway, but there was no flag. I thought these kinds of plays were outlawed. This was a superbly officiated game, but I'm thinking they missed one here.
If he wasn't moving forward and he was the only one in motion and every one was set for a sec prior to him going in motion, what's the problem? If you don't think it was a deceitful, unfair act kind of play but bona fide confusion (if NCAA even has that rule like Fed does...I don't know), then just sounds like an ugly but legal play.
3) A runs it in for a TD but it's called back for holding. Penalty is accepted, of course, and marked off. Clock was started on the SNAP. That is correct because the result of the play was a score which is a clock stoppage?
Correct. Result of the play was a score, so clock on snap.
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1) Does "Holding" LITERALLY have to be "Holding"?
I saw a punt with a nice return where a member of R blocked a member of K by simply lying on top of him. I didn't see how they went to the ground, but as the returner ran through the area, we had a big lineman from R lying on top of a smaller man from K. This clearly was not a situation of someone getting up slowly. This was clearly a big guy with both hands and both feet on the ground lying on top of a helpless smaller guy. But he wasn't LITERALLY HOLDING him. It was flagged for holding.
To answer your question, you might reference NFHS 9-2-3-c; A defensive player shall not: "Use his hands or arms to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain an opponent other than the runner."
There are multiple examples of various situations related to "Holding" in Section 9-2 of the NFHS "Case Book", that may be helpful in understanding the variety of violations possible under this rule.
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2) A 4th & 5 at B 20. QB goes under center and then stands up looking confused with both hands in the air. He looks like he's about to call timeout, but then jogs perhaps 4 steps toward his bench, leans toward his bench with his hands up and looking confused. QB's motion is not forward and he is the only one moving. The ball is then snapped directly to RB. The RB muffs the snap so the play ends in a loss anyway, but there was no flag. I thought these kinds of plays were outlawed. This was a superbly officiated game, but I'm thinking they missed one here.
This type of deception is classified as an "Unfair Act" under NFHS rules. Ref: 2016 NFHS Case Book; p 93; 9.10.1 Situation B is a similar type of play. The "Comment" on the play clarifies the interpretation.
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2) A 4th & 5 at B 20. QB goes under center and then stands up looking confused with both hands in the air. He looks like he's about to call timeout, but then jogs perhaps 4 steps toward his bench, leans toward his bench with his hands up and looking confused. QB's motion is not forward and he is the only one moving. The ball is then snapped directly to RB. The RB muffs the snap so the play ends in a loss anyway, but there was no flag. I thought these kinds of plays were outlawed. This was a superbly officiated game, but I'm thinking they missed one here.
This is why we ask both coaches before the game if they have any plays that they'd like to discuss. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Coach could have saved himself 15 yards by discussing this one before the game started.
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This is why we ask both coaches before the game if they have any plays that they'd like to discuss. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Coach could have saved himself 15 yards by discussing this one before the game started.
Excellent point, FLAHL. Eliminate the pony poop in your pre-game chat with coach. IMHO, yes, USC on HC who now is on double not so secret probation. ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag
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For #1, that's a little too technical to call holding.
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For #1, that's a little too technical to call holding.
Agreed. I once had a coach want a BBW flag when his DE tripped over an A player who was lying in the mud.