RefStripes.com

Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: RET79804 on September 06, 2025, 02:04:33 PM

Title: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: RET79804 on September 06, 2025, 02:04:33 PM
3rd and 5 from A25.  A2 advances the ball to A40.  A50 holds at A45 and then is charged with an USC.
Since A has gained a new series after the holding penalty, it would still be A's ball and we penalize for the dead ball USC.
There was a discussion that the chains should be set after both penalties are enforced and it should be A's ball 1st and 10.

What are your opinions?
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on September 06, 2025, 05:10:43 PM
No opinion needed.  It's 1st and 10 by rule.  The only time we could end up with 1st & 25 is when the chains had been set after enforcing the live ball holding, ball was made ready for play @ 1st & 10, and then we had the flag for USC.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: SCHSref on September 06, 2025, 07:38:35 PM
1/10 from A 15

Clock on ready
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: lawdog on September 07, 2025, 11:33:39 AM
There was a discussion that the chains should be set after both penalties are enforced and it should be A's ball 1st and 10.


There was discussion that you might do it right?  What else what you do?  Please tell me that a crew of 5 didn't agree after this discussion to make it 1st and 25!!!!!!
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: Ralph Damren on September 08, 2025, 02:46:49 PM
For clearity, I would measure off the 19 yards for holding, then signal 1st down (#8); followed USC (#27) setting the stakes for 1/10. If mic'd , I would announce : "The play created a 1st  down after the holding penalty. The USC penalty would then be enforced prior to reseting the stakes."
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: ElvisLives on September 08, 2025, 04:27:58 PM
For clearity, I would measure off the 19 yards for holding, then signal 1st down (#8); followed USC (#27) setting the stakes for 1/10. If mic'd , I would announce : "The play created a 1st  down after the holding penalty. The USC penalty would then be enforced prior to reseting the stakes."

Respectfully disagree with the announcement, Ralph. (BTW, same result For NCAA.) And I'm not sure where you got penalizing 19 yards (maybe a "typo"?). The holding penalty would be 10 yards from the end of the run (A-40), taking the ball to the A-30. The 15-yard UNS would then take the ball to the A-15, first and ten.   

"During the down, holding number 50, offense. That penalty leaves the ball beyond the line-to-gain, and results in first and ten for Bangor. After the down, unsportsmanlike conduct, number 50, Bangor. That penalty leaves the ball at the Bangor 15 yard line, first and ten, by rule. This is number 50's first unsportsmanlike conduct foul of the game."

I know we're, essentially, saying the same thing, in different ways. But, I think my announcement provides the 'masses' with more pertinent information. They don't know what "resetting the stakes" means, but they do understand "first and ten."

In my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

(Forgive me if Bangor was inappropriate, but I don't know any other Maine cities off the top of my head.)
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: RET79804 on September 09, 2025, 04:21:47 AM
Quote "There was discussion that you might do it right?  What else what you do?  Please tell me that a crew of 5 didn't agree after this discussion to make it 1st and 25!!!!!!"

The 1st and 25 did initially come up but after a few words, was dropped from the discussion and we marched on 1st and 10. 
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.
Post by: Ralph Damren on September 09, 2025, 01:03:40 PM
Respectfully disagree with the announcement, Ralph. (BTW, same result For NCAA.) And I'm not sure where you got penalizing 19 yards (maybe a "typo"?). The holding penalty would be 10 yards from the end of the run (A-40), taking the ball to the A-30. The 15-yard UNS would then take the ball to the A-15, first and ten.   

"During the down, holding number 50, offense. That penalty leaves the ball beyond the line-to-gain, and results in first and ten for Bangor. After the down, unsportsmanlike conduct, number 50, Bangor. That penalty leaves the ball at the Bangor 15 yard line, first and ten, by rule. This is number 50's first unsportsmanlike conduct foul of the game."

I know we're, essentially, saying the same thing, in different ways. But, I think my announcement provides the 'masses' with more pertinent information. They don't know what "resetting the stakes" means, but they do understand "first and ten."

In my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

(Forgive me if Bangor was inappropriate, but I don't know any other Maine cities off the top of my head.)

Thanks, Elvis, in Texas a 10 yard distance is probably = 19 yards down there  ;D. I agree, "..reseting the stakes" might be considered by some that we are playing horseshoes. Bangor was not a good example as a Bangor coach once told me : "Bangor players never hold  :o " To that, I replyed : "And football officials never make mistakes  ::)"

.........AND THE BAND PLAYED ON