Penalty Enforcement and Next Down and Distance.

[RET79804]

3rd and 5 from A25.  A2 advances the ball to A40.  A50 holds at A45 and then is charged with an USC.
Since A has gained a new series after the holding penalty, it would still be A's ball and we penalize for the dead ball USC.
There was a discussion that the chains should be set after both penalties are enforced and it should be A's ball 1st and 10.

What are your opinions?

[NVFOA_Ump]

No opinion needed.  It's 1st and 10 by rule.  The only time we could end up with 1st & 25 is when the chains had been set after enforcing the live ball holding, ball was made ready for play @ 1st & 10, and then we had the flag for USC.

[SCHSref]

1/10 from A 15

Clock on ready

[lawdog]

There was a discussion that the chains should be set after both penalties are enforced and it should be A's ball 1st and 10.

There was discussion that you might do it right?  What else what you do?  Please tell me that a crew of 5 didn't agree after this discussion to make it 1st and 25!!!!!!

[Ralph Damren]

For clearity, I would measure off the 19 yards for holding, then signal 1st down (#8); followed USC (#27) setting the stakes for 1/10. If mic'd , I would announce : "The play created a 1st  down after the holding penalty. The USC penalty would then be enforced prior to reseting the stakes."

[ElvisLives]

For clearity, I would measure off the 19 yards for holding, then signal 1st down (#8); followed USC (#27) setting the stakes for 1/10. If mic'd , I would announce : "The play created a 1st  down after the holding penalty. The USC penalty would then be enforced prior to reseting the stakes."

Respectfully disagree with the announcement, Ralph. (BTW, same result For NCAA.) And I'm not sure where you got penalizing 19 yards (maybe a "typo"?). The holding penalty would be 10 yards from the end of the run (A-40), taking the ball to the A-30. The 15-yard UNS would then take the ball to the A-15, first and ten.   

"During the down, holding number 50, offense. That penalty leaves the ball beyond the line-to-gain, and results in first and ten for Bangor. After the down, unsportsmanlike conduct, number 50, Bangor. That penalty leaves the ball at the Bangor 15 yard line, first and ten, by rule. This is number 50's first unsportsmanlike conduct foul of the game."

I know we're, essentially, saying the same thing, in different ways. But, I think my announcement provides the 'masses' with more pertinent information. They don't know what "resetting the stakes" means, but they do understand "first and ten."

In my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

(Forgive me if Bangor was inappropriate, but I don't know any other Maine cities off the top of my head.)

[RET79804]

Quote "There was discussion that you might do it right?  What else what you do?  Please tell me that a crew of 5 didn't agree after this discussion to make it 1st and 25!!!!!!"

The 1st and 25 did initially come up but after a few words, was dropped from the discussion and we marched on 1st and 10. 

[Ralph Damren]

Respectfully disagree with the announcement, Ralph. (BTW, same result For NCAA.) And I'm not sure where you got penalizing 19 yards (maybe a "typo"?). The holding penalty would be 10 yards from the end of the run (A-40), taking the ball to the A-30. The 15-yard UNS would then take the ball to the A-15, first and ten.   

"During the down, holding number 50, offense. That penalty leaves the ball beyond the line-to-gain, and results in first and ten for Bangor. After the down, unsportsmanlike conduct, number 50, Bangor. That penalty leaves the ball at the Bangor 15 yard line, first and ten, by rule. This is number 50's first unsportsmanlike conduct foul of the game."

I know we're, essentially, saying the same thing, in different ways. But, I think my announcement provides the 'masses' with more pertinent information. They don't know what "resetting the stakes" means, but they do understand "first and ten."

In my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

(Forgive me if Bangor was inappropriate, but I don't know any other Maine cities off the top of my head.)

Thanks, Elvis, in Texas a 10 yard distance is probably = 19 yards down there  . I agree, "..reseting the stakes" might be considered by some that we are playing horseshoes. Bangor was not a good example as a Bangor coach once told me : "Bangor players never hold  " To that, I replyed : "And football officials never make mistakes  "

.........AND THE BAND PLAYED ON