Enforcement of fouls on the kickoff

[Ref157]

Had a rather unusual play in my last game. Here is the situation:

Team A was down by two with under two minutes to play in the fourth quarter. 2nd and 10 from the A's 25.  A12 throws a pass to A45 which is intercepted by B36 at A's 35 yard line.  B36 returns it for a touchdown.  During the return A55 is flagged for unnecessary roughness at A's 5.  Following the play A23 is flagged for a late hit on B36 in the end zone, and A7 is flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct, and A55 is flagged for a second time for unnecessary roughness for pushing B77 to the ground after being separated by the U and the HL.  B's coach elected to take the live ball foul and the three dead ball fouls on the ensuing kick off.  How should this be administered?

[Atlanta Blue]

From the K40 to the R45 (1)
From the R45 to the R30 (2)
From the R30 to the R15 (3)
From the R15 to the R7.5 (4)

R's restraining line is now 2.5 yards deep in the end zone, and an onside kick is impossible for K to recover if R doesn't touch it.  At that point, best thing to do is kick it about 5 yards and fall on it, downing it at the 5.

Another option for K would have been declining the last one (or even two), and trying an onside kick.

[Legacy Zebra]

Does NFHS have a rule restricting how far back a teams restraining line can go? In NCAA, neither team's restraining line can be inside their own five yard line.

[James]

To follow up on Legacy's post - the penalties that would would otherwise
place the free kick restraining line behind a team’s five-yard line are
enforced from the next succeeding spot.  (NCAA)

so (4) would be deferred for a play...

[Ref157]

We ended up doing exactly what Atlanta Blue said.  K kicked the ball so that it died at the 1/2 yard line where we had first touching by K.  Following the game we discussed whether or not we could have a kick off inside of R's 10.  I have done some research but have found nothing in Federation rules that states that K restraining line cannot be inside the 10 as it does for NCAA rules. 

[stevestod]

Did you set chains to have a 10 yard zone between the teams?

[Ref157]

Did not set the chains.  We had the HL and the U mark off 10 yards and establish R's restraining line in the end zone.  The 10 yards was seen as a minor issue because when the ball was kicked I instructed the HL and the U to get to the goal line right way to blow the play dead if the ball crossed the line. 

[Ralph Damren]

Remember, guys, that the 25 yard award if kick goes ,untouched by R, OOB isn't halved. With that in mind, here's a humpday play..... (1) K is free kicking from R's 30; (2) onside kick is muffed by K2 @ B's 22, deflects off R1 @ B'19 and goes OOB @ R's 17. YOU MAKE THE CALL........ What are R's choices?? .

[maven]

Remember, guys, that the 25 yard award if kick goes ,untouched by R, OOB isn't halved. With that in mind, here's a humpday play..... (1) K is free kicking from R's 30; (2) onside kick is muffed by K2 @ B's 22, deflects off R1 @ B'19 and goes OOB @ R's 17. YOU MAKE THE CALL........ What are R's choices?? .

1. First touching, R 1/10 @ R-22, clock on the snap
2. Result of play, R 1/10 @ R-17, clock on the snap

Not a kick OOB, since R touched it.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks for trying, Maven, and time's up guys.  There would be a flag for free kicking OOB. Such touching by R is ignored if it is caused by K legally batting or muffing the ball (first touching) into R. R could also have K re kick from the 35 or take the ball at the 5 along with your two choices. (6-2-4, 6.1.8G , 8-1).

[zoom]

What if the kickoff was from the R25 and the kick went OOB?  I would think the 25 yard penalty is off the table (unless it would result in a touchback)

[maven]

Thanks for trying, Maven, and time's up guys.  There would be a flag for free kicking OOB. Such touching by R is ignored if it is caused by K legally batting or muffing the ball (first touching) into R. R could also have K re kick from the 35 or take the ball at the 5 along with your two choices. (6-2-4, 6.1.8G , 8-1).

OK Ralph, I have to send you back to the book on this one.

First, you cite 6-2-4, which applies only to scrimmage kicks. This is a free kick.

Second, the parallel rule about touching during a free kick is 6-1-5. But notice what it says: "Such touching in the neutral zone by R is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball or if K muffs the ball into contact with R." This clause excludes touching by R in the neutral zone, which is reinforced by the case play you cite, 6.1.8G. We don't want K getting cheap recoveries in the NZ.

In your play, the touching by R was NOT in the NZ. The kick was from the R-30, and the touch by R was at the R-19. So R's touching is NOT ignored by rule. Therefore, NOT a free kick OOB untouched by R.

QED

[Ralph Damren]

Remember, guys, that the 25 yard award if kick goes ,untouched by R, OOB isn't halved. With that in mind, here's a humpday play..... (1) K is free kicking from R's 30; (2) onside kick is muffed by K2 @ B's 22, deflects off R1 @ B'19 and goes OOB @ R's 17. YOU MAKE THE CALL........ What are R's choices?? .

K's first touching was within the neutral zone (B's 22) but i should have made the touching by R @ R's 21 so that it would also be within the neutral zone, as in the case play. My bad . (8-1)