Fair catch on Kickoff, A-B-A

[ElvisLives]

Had a fair catch on a routine kickoff from the A-40 last night.  The ball was caught at the B-23.  Honestly thought I’d never see that in HS football, but there it was. B, 1/10, B-25.

Even more surprising, had team A fumble, Team B recovered and advanced, then B fumbled and A recovered and downed.  Play clock operator didn’t get it (set it to 25 and held), but, it took a little extra time for everyone to understand what happened and get the chains moving to the succeeding spot, so we just got the ball spotted and started both clocks on my signal. No crisis.

I get frustrated with young coaches that think they can intimidate us by yelling what they want to happen, in their favor, even without facts to support their claims.  E.g., when several B players stand up and stop the BC, drive him backward, then eventually pull the ball away from the BC (long after the ball was dead by rule).  “WE’VE GOT THE BALL! WE‘VE GOT THE BALL!”  No you don’t. Get off the field.

Had fun.

Robert

[centexsports]

NM. LONG NIGHT AND EARLY MORNING.

[Kalle]

Play clock operator didn’t get it (set it to 25 and held),

I've recently been in this situation as the PCO and didn't get it either until after the game, and been wondering that should there be a signal to really really start the 40s clock? A hard two-handed pump signal by the on-field official responsible for the PC after the ball is dead?

[ElvisLives]

I've recently been in this situation as the PCO and didn't get it either until after the game, and been wondering that should there be a signal to really really start the 40s clock? A hard two-handed pump signal by the on-field official responsible for the PC after the ball is dead?

This is not really any easier for the on-field guys, i.e., not everyone - especially the R - may know what happened.  So, by he time anyone can realize that the play clock should have been started already, including the PCO, a lot of real time may have elapsed.  Not really a big deal, since the game clock is stopped.  Pumping the PC to 40 is easy - we've got a signal for that.  But getting it started without starting the game clock - still waiting for the ball to get spotted and everybody in position - is where we don't have a mechanic or signal.  If the R has a field mic, he could use it to instruct the PCO to start the play clock.  But, in the absence of a field mic, what to do?  I would suggest that the R use a "wrist twirl with extended index finger" overhead, after pumping it to 40, to signal the PCO to go ahead and start it.  Then, once the ball is RFP, start the game clock as usual.

Robert

[ilyazhito]

Did you have an A-B-A scenario by itself, or in conjunction with a kick? I know that A-B-A = ready for play, except on a kick play, because legal kick play = snap under NCAA rules, which UIL plays by.

I would start the 40 as soon as ball is blown dead in this scenario, and give the RFP/wind clock signal as soon as the ball is set in your scenario.  If the play clock operator failed to start the 40 in time, I would pump up the play clock with both hands, then give the RFP/wind clock signal once the ball is spotted.

[Phantomref]

The default Play clock setting is 40 seconds. So, in the case of an A-B-A scenario and in the absence of a stopping the clock signal a PCO should always set the play clock to 40. Then, if the R indicates the one-handed pump then the PCO can set the play clock to 25 as indicated. Then the R can chop it to start the PC.

[Kalle]

The default Play clock setting is 40 seconds. So, in the case of an A-B-A scenario and in the absence of a stopping the clock signal a PCO should always set the play clock to 40. Then, if the R indicates the one-handed pump then the PCO can set the play clock to 25 as indicated. Then the R can chop it to start the PC.

The problem I ran into was that as this is so rare, the default mindset of the PCO after the first turnover is "next PC is 25". It takes mental effort to switch that back to "ah, back to A and this isn't a kick, go with 40", and it is going to be missed. Now, if I keep my eye on the officials and an official remembers the correct PC status, he might signal me. Of course, with O2O radios including the clock operators an official can simply call out through there "play clock to 40 and start now now now".

In my situation the entire crew and both CO's didn't catch the PC status and only the CO's caught the game clock status - me and the CO decided not to confuse the issue by asking over O2O or starting the clock without the referee's signal.

This isn't a huge issue in my book as there probably is little difference in 40 or 25 in this case, but I like to try to avoid mistakes

[ElvisLives]

This isn't a huge issue in my book as there probably is little difference in 40 or 25 in this case, but I like to try to avoid mistakes

Exactly.👍

[Welpe]

Had a fair catch on a routine kickoff from the A-40 last night.  The ball was caught at the B-23.  Honestly thought I’d never see that in HS football, but there it was. B, 1/10, B-25.

We could have had it several times on Friday. Home team was kicking it to around the 5 and the receivers kept running it back. They never made it back to the 25. Missed opportunity for them.

Though we did have one game where a receiving team player caught it around the 15 and took a knee. 

[baylor_prospectref]

The ball was caught at the B-23.  Honestly thought I’d never see that in HS football, but there it was. B, 1/10, B-25.

What is the B-23 and B-25? I'm assuming they're numbers and letters that represents positions on the field, but where are they located at specifically?

[Kalle]

What is the B-23 and B-25? I'm assuming they're numbers and letters that represents positions on the field, but where are they located at specifically?

B-23 is the 23-yard line on that end of the field defended by the team which does not put the ball next in play. The team next putting the ball in play is designated as team A. Note that this is different from "offense" and "defense" as those may change during the down - team A and team B designations stay the same until the next down.
 

[JasonTX]

What is the B-23 and B-25? I'm assuming they're numbers and letters that represents positions on the field, but where are they located at specifically?

To add to what has already been answered.  There is a difference between B-23 and then B23.  So a football field is 100 yards between the two goal lines.  Team A is the team putting the ball in play.  Assume we just had a touchback on the opening kickoff so the ball will be spotted on the A-25.  As Team A drives down field each yard-line on this side of the 50 yard line will have the A- in front of it.  Once we cross the 50 it then becomes B's side, such as B-45.  If you see B23 or A23, that represents that specific player from that team.  #23 from team A etc.  So when his team is putting the ball in play he is A23 and when his team isn't the one putting the ball in play he is then B23.

An example of a play might read:  1st and 10 from the A-30.  A23 takes the snap and runs out of bounds at the A-35.  There was 1 minute left in the 4th period when the play ends.  Team A was in an illegal formation at the snap.  Ruling:

[Kalle]

To add to what has already been answered.  There is a difference between B-23 and then B23. 

Most people do follow that distinction, but it isn't 100%. The rule book uses "team B's 23-yard line".

[ElvisLives]

Not so much these days, but when Adams was generating national exams, he used conventions to keep the questions as short as possible, i.e., Team A is always assumed to be the team putting the ball in play, so  no need to say that.  And he always used a dash to separate the team and the yard line. Example: "2/5, B-35.  A11 takes the snap and advances to the B-30, where B70 tackles A11 by the facemask."

The one thing that always caused (and still causes) confusion was (is) player numbers and yard line numbers that were (are) the same, in the same question.  I wish the exam writers would settle on A11 as always being Team A's normal QB or potential kicker, and use A22, A33, A44, A55, A66, A77, A88, and A99 as Team A players, and B50, B60, B70, B80, and B90 as Team B players (shouldn't need more Team B players than that), and NEVER use any of those numbers as yard line numbers.  Also, as often as possible, use major yard line numbers, i.e.,  A-5, B-10, B-15, A-40 etc.; avoid using intermediate yard line numbers, except for the Try.  And use increments of 5 for the line-to gain.  Example:  "3/5, A-30.  A11 takes the snap and throws a legal forward pass toward A88 who is at the 50 when B80 tackles A88 just before the ball arrives.  The ball falls to the ground untouched."  Makes the math so much easier, and we shouldn't cause people to miss exam questions because they miscalculated the math.  Also, try not to have penalties cross the 50.  The point of quiz questions should be to test rule knowledge, not math proficiency.  Occasionally, it may be prudent to have a penalty end up being on a 1/2 yard line, when doing 1/2 the distance penalties.  But even then, try to have the enforcement spot be a major yard line, i.e., live-ball facemask on Team B on an incomplete pass, with the previous spot at the A-10, then a dead-ball UNR on Team B.  The DPI takes the ball to the A-25, then the UNR takes the ball to the A-12 1/2.  We should be able to deal with that, on an exam.  Let's just try not to fool people.

Robert

[Kalle]

i.e., live-ball facemask on Team B on an incomplete pass, with the previous spot at the A-10, then a dead-ball UNR on Team B.  The DPI takes the ball to the A-25, then the UNR takes the ball to the A-12 1/2.  We should be able to deal with that, on an exam.  Let's just try not to fool people.

Well said, except for this part - I think you mean to have the previous spot at B-40, and the enforcements to B-25 and B-12 1/2 (or you get the same effect with correct yard lines if the DB UNR is on team A)

[ElvisLives]

Well said, except for this part - I think you mean to have the previous spot at B-40, and the enforcements to B-25 and B-12 1/2 (or you get the same effect with correct yard lines if the DB UNR is on team A)

Actually, I meant a dead-ball UNR on Team A.  Does my embarrassment show?  It should.  Thanks.

Robert

[TexDoc]

This is not really any easier for the on-field guys, i.e., not everyone - especially the R - may know what happened.  So, by he time anyone can realize that the play clock should have been started already, including the PCO, a lot of real time may have elapsed.  Not really a big deal, since the game clock is stopped.  Pumping the PC to 40 is easy - we've got a signal for that.  But getting it started without starting the game clock - still waiting for the ball to get spotted and everybody in position - is where we don't have a mechanic or signal.  If the R has a field mic, he could use it to instruct the PCO to start the play clock.  But, in the absence of a field mic, what to do?  I would suggest that the R use a "wrist twirl with extended index finger" overhead, after pumping it to 40, to signal the PCO to go ahead and start it.  Then, once the ball is RFP, start the game clock as usual.

Robert

Some crews, when they have a chapter timer, give him a radio and headset so he can listen in on the officials and can quickly communicate with him concerning changing the time, fixing any problems and getting the play clock going or fixed.  Not sure if that's specifically allowed, but it makes perfect sense.