Carry Over Rules on Scoring Pass Play

[Ref4bills]

Good Morning,
    Situation I am having some trouble with. Team A drops back to pass, throws a TD pass. While the ball is in the air, team B is guilty of defensive holding. Can this penalty be carried over to the try or kickoff? Or does team A have to decline the penalty to keep the score? Thank you!

[CalhounLJ]

They can keep the score and apply the penalty to either try or kickoff. 8-2-2.

[ncwingman]

The major restriction to the carry over enforcement is a change of possession.

Generally speaking, if there is no change of possession between the foul by the non-scoring team and the scoring team scoring, the score can be accepted and the penalty enforced on the try/kickoff.

In your scenario with no change of possession, this is moot -- foul by B can be enforced on the try or kickoff.

If there is a change of possession, the recovering team must decline all fouls prior to the change of possession in order to retain possession of the ball (and therefore the score). If the foul occurs AFTER the change of possession, the recovering team does not need to decline this foul to retain possession.

The extra bits in the rule cover USC/non-player fouls which are live-ball enforced as dead-ball. Since they're enforced from the succeeding spot, regardless of change of possession, the score counts and they get enforced on the try/kickoff.

[Curious]

If you REALLY want to get confused, read the section on "carry-over penalties" that occur and tie the score on the on the last play of regulation - and OT will be played....

[CalhounLJ]

If you REALLY want to get confused, read the section on "carry-over penalties" that occur and tie the score on the on the last play of regulation - and OT will be played....

It’s really not that hard. Basically, if a field goal or try ties the game on the last play, a penalty by the opponents can be carried over to overtime, including anything dead ball after the fact. If it’s a touchdown on the last play, the penalty can only be enforced in the try.


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[zebrastripes]

You can't carry anything over to overtime until you know overtime will be played.

[CalhounLJ]

Exactly. The rules specifically give either kickoff or succeeding spot for a reason. if the rule specifies a penalty can be enforced on a kickoff, you have to make sure there is going to be a kickoff. If it's a touchdown with no time remaining, there's not going to be a kickoff... However, if it's a successful field goal or try, then the rule specifies the option to enforce on succeeding spot. There might be a succeeding spot if the kick or try ties the game.

[js in sc]

Exactly. The rules specifically give either kickoff or succeeding spot for a reason. if the rule specifies a penalty can be enforced on a kickoff, you have to make sure there is going to be a kickoff. If it's a touchdown with no time remaining, there's not going to be a kickoff... However, if it's a successful field goal or try, then the rule specifies the option to enforce on succeeding spot. There might be a succeeding spot if the kick or try ties the game.

However, if the overtime depends on a score during the try, then a penalty during the touchdown can only be taken on the try.  If the penalty is during the successful try, then it can carry over to the succeeding spot in overtime.

[Ref4bills]

Thanks guys. I’ve read all the pertinent rules thrown out there and added it to my notebook. If this question comes up again, I’ll be ready.

I believe my confusion lies (lied) in the fact that loose ball penalty enforcement is the previous spot. But I now see there is the exception for a scoring play.

[KWH]

For extra credit...

1 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Touchdown in OT?
 
2 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Safety in OT? 

[js in sc]

For extra credit...

1 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Touchdown in OT?

2 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Safety in OT?

In NFHS, there is no kicking in OT, so no R.
1 - Nothing.  Ball was dead when B gained possession.

2 - 2 points for B

[CalhounLJ]

In NFHS, there is no kicking in OT, so no R.
1 - Nothing.  Ball was dead when B gained possession.

2 - 2 points for B

There is kicking in overtime. Field goals. B/R can score in overtime, although it’s highly unlikely.  If a loose ball is recovered by B/R in the other end zone, it’s a TD.

 1. If a foul by A occurred on such a play, B would have to take the penalty on the try because there will be no kickoff.

2. The special enforcement rules do not apply to a safety. 

[PABJNR]

If B/R somehow manages to score a TD in OT the game is over B wins.


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[CalhounLJ]

If B/R somehow manages to score a TD in OT the game is over B wins.


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Lol. You’re right. I was trying to think of a situation in which B was behind by a touchdown, but then A wouldn’t have the ball in such a situation.

[PABJNR]

The overtime rules literally say if the defensive team scores a touchdown or safety, the game is ended.


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[CalhounLJ]

The overtime rules literally say if the defensive team scores a touchdown or safety, the game is ended.


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I gotcha.
I believe ya.
I agree with ya.
I’m not trying to argue the point.
I was shooting off the hip and forgot all about the rule.
You are right.
I’m not mad.


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[PABJNR]

Calhoun my bad, bud I should have prefaced my post with after you said about you couldn’t think of a situation I started thinking as well then I remembered that I thought it was written somewhere that way and I found it.

Now I read my post and can see where it could be read as snarky which was not the intent.  I wouldn’t try to rub something in your face, especially after my 1st and 10 for K at the point of the incomplete pass post from the punt play topic .  If you have a game tonight good luck.


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[CalhounLJ]

My bad. Just goes to show how difficult it is to determine tone and intent on written messages on message boards. 

[KWH]

For extra credit...

1 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Touchdown in OT? (Award B/R 6-points and the game is ended, B/R wins)
 
2 - What happens if Team B/R scores a Safety in OT? (Award B/R 2-points and the game is ended, B/R wins)


Source: NFHS Rules Book, RESOLVING TIED GAMES, Rule 8-1: If the defensive team scores a safety or touchdown, the game is ended.