Author Topic: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles  (Read 3633 times)

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Online dammitbobby

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Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« on: December 29, 2022, 03:29:45 PM »
Hopefully I can set these up right so yall can understand what I’m asking.

3/10 @ B32.  A’s pass is intercepted by B22 in EZ, and while he is running around trying to escape, B55 commits a hold at the B14.  B22 fumbles from the EZ into the field of play, where B55 recovers at the B5.

Ruling: Result of the play is a fumble recovered by B at the B5.  B got the ball with clean hands.  However, the end result is a safety, because the basic spot is the goal line since the ball was in the EZ when the foul occurred, and a foul cannot be enforced back from the goal line.  I’m not sure what to do with the foul though – 10-2-5-a-1 only addresses fouls (5 and 10 yarders) declined by rule that occur during a touchdown, so that rule isn’t relevant.  If A declines the hold (extremely unlikely), then B gets the ball at the B5. 

4/10 @ B32.  A’s pass is intercepted by B22 in EZ, and while he is running around trying to escape, B55 commits a hold at the B14.  B22 fumbles from the EZ into the field of play, where B55 recovers at the B5.

Ruling:  Same result, safety, but where I’m stuck is enforcing this - If A accepts the hold, it’s enforced from the basic spot, and if A declines the hold, it’s still going back to the spot of the fumble – in the EZ - does that make a safety the only option here, accepted or declined?  How else can it be enforced?

3/10 @ B32.  A’s pass is intercepted by B22 in EZ, and while he is running around trying to escape, B55 commits a hold at the B14.  B22 fumbles from the EZ into the field of play, where B88 recovers at the B5 and returns the ball for a score.

Ruling:  Still a safety, although B’s coach is going to be super mad, because not only does he NOT get a TD, or the ball even, but Team A gets 2 points AND the ball back.

Is all this correct?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2022, 04:06:01 PM »
10-2-2-d-2 is the rule reference.

Play 1:  The basic spot is the end of the related run and that is the goalline.  This would be (c) in that rule reference.  So, the acceptance of the penalty will result in a safety.  Extend the period for the free kick if time expired during the down.

Play 2:  Same exact situation as play 1.  Declining the penalty results in B's ball at the B-5, the same as it would in play 1.  4th down fumble rules don't apply for team B fumbles.

Play 3:  Same thing.  Acceptance results in a safety.  Declining results in a TD.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2022, 04:13:10 PM »
What Jason said. Exacto-mundo.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2022, 07:12:03 PM »
Your scenario #1 and #2 are exactly the same.

Let's tweak #2 and say the fumble went OOB at the 5.  Result is a touchback.  Basic spot is the 20.  Enforce from spot of the foul.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2022, 08:42:07 PM »
Your scenario #1 and #2 are exactly the same.

Let's tweak #2 and say the fumble went OOB at the 5.  Result is a touchback.  Basic spot is the 20.  Enforce from spot of the foul.

Scenario 1 is 3rd down.  Scenario 2 is 4th down.

Online dammitbobby

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Re: Safeties on plays with turnovers and fumbles
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2022, 08:49:02 PM »
Thanks guys, this was helpful.

I think he's saying (other than the down) all enforcements during the play are the exact same - I got caught up trying to enforce 4th down fumble rule after the COP, which according to rule doesn't apply.

Started thinking about this listening to a rule 11 podcast (#38) and how arcane it seems that a ball going OOB at the 5, is a touchback, but actually recovering the ball inbounds at the 5 penalizes Team B severely.