4th down from 2024 test

[ljudge]

I'm sure many of you are retaking tests from last year in prep for this next season.  Here's a great play to share because it involves many detailed aspects to be mindful of. 

4/5 @ B-32.  The score is A-23, B-26 with 1:23 remaining in the 4th quarter and no timeouts remaining for either team.   QB A32 runs to the B-25 and pitches the ball back to A98.  A98 muffs the pitch at the B-26 and while trying to recover the ball accidentally kicks the ball out of bounds to the B-21. B62 was offside at the snap.

[ilyazhito]

A 1/10 from the B-21. Kicking has to be an intentional act to be a penalty, so there is no penalty for kicking the loose ball. It is illegal to bat a backward pass forward, but a muff is not a bat either. Therefore, the play is a legal play. The penalty will be declined. The game clock will start on the snap, because a backward pass went out of bounds in the last 2 minutes of either half.

[ljudge]

Nice!  When I first saw this I was thinking fumble but status is backward pass.

[ElvisLives]

We have definitions, and the quiz writers need to write the questions in ways that respect the definitions. If it was ‘accidental,’ it ain’t a “kick,” so write the question to respect the definition. Don’t try to confuse us, or get us hung up on terminology. Don’t use words like “pitches” that have no meaning in the rules. Use “throws” or “passes,” and then give us info on yard lines where the pass was released, and where it was first touched, or strikes the ground. (For example, WTF is a ‘lateral’?)
Horrible question.

[dammitbobby]

This seems very related to a play I posted a while back - here's a twist:

Same down and yards needed for 1st down, but much closer distance, and the ball winds up in the EZ as a result of the 'accidental' kick, and recovered by A. That would be a touchdown, correct?

So if ball is fumbled in this scenario, no TD, returned to spot of fumble, possible 1st down depending on spot, otherwise B's ball if LTG is not reached.
Loose ball (via muff or backwards pass, but not fumbled) and ball goes into EZ, recovered by A: TD.
Ball goes OOB, fumbled forward, but not in EZ, ball comes back to spot of fumble
Ball goes OOB, fumbled backwards, B's ball at OOB spot.
Ball goes OOB in the EZ: Touchback, B's ball at the 20.

[Bulldog75]

In the OP, the result of the play and the result of the penalty both have 1/10 at the B-21, right?  Would the game clock starting on the ready vs on the snap be the only difference in accepting or declining the penalty?

[ElvisLives]

In the OP, the result of the play and the result of the penalty both have 1/10 at the B-21, right?  Would the game clock starting on the ready vs on the snap be the only difference in accepting or declining the penalty?

Snap. The Out of Bounds governs in situations with multiple events that would cause the clock to stop.

[Kalle]

In the OP, the result of the play and the result of the penalty both have 1/10 at the B-21, right?  Would the game clock starting on the ready vs on the snap be the only difference in accepting or declining the penalty?

How do you end up at B-21 if team A accepts the offside penalty with the previous spot being at B-32?

[ElvisLives]

How do you end up at B-21 if team A accepts the offside penalty with the previous spot being at B-32?

Good catch, Kalle. I was only thinking about the clock with my previous reply. Yeah, the penalty would yield a 1st down, but it would leave the ball at the B-27, not the B-21. Penalty declined. A, 1/10, B-21, snap (25).

[Bulldog75]

I misread the initial setup.  I saw "B-26" as the field position, not the score.

[ElvisLives]

I misread the initial setup.  I saw "B-26" as the field position, not the score.

Yeah, I continue to encourage folks to use the same format that was used by Dave Nelson and John Adams, to avoid such misunderstandings. Example:

2/5, B-30, 4:40 (1), A=7, B=0.
A11 takes the snap and advances to the B-15 where he is tackled and the ball is ruled dead, inbounds.
Ruling: A, 1/10, B-15, ready (40).

[Down]/[distance], [succeeding spot] (with a dash between team and yard line), [time remaining] ([period]), [Team A score], [Team B score] (with an equal sign between team and score). Players are identified with team A/B preceding the jersey number, with no separator. In the ruling: [team to put the ball in play], [down]/[distance], [yard line], [game clock status] ([play clock duration]). (Note that Nelson and Adams didn’t have to concern themselves with different play clock durations.)

Shaw is using an “at” symbol (@) to separate the down/distance from the succeeding spot, but that seems unnecessary. A comma works just fine.

Solely for quiz purposes, try to use whole yard line numbers as much as possible, to keep the math simple. And try to use player numbers above 50, whenever possible, to limit confusion with yard lines.

Go forth and….whatever.