Mouths of Coaches...Part II

[GaLJ]

Some assistant coaches just don't know when to keep their mouth shut. I was working a JV game as the WH last night and an assistant coach wanted a foul called and didn't get it. He decided to come on the field during the play and express his opinion.  As I was signaling the unsportmanlike conduct foul, another assistant coach decided it was his turn  . Not to be outdone, a third assistant coach questioned my heritage and ability.    I guess when you lose 4 fumbles, 2 interceptions, muff a kickoff and a punt, it's the officials fault you lost the game. Looking forward to tonights Varsity game.

[CTWHJay]

Doing things like that (the phantom holding calls on a team during a blowout) take us out of the realm of ensuring safety and fairness and move us into the realm of punishing boorish behavior.  It's not our job to punish people for being merciless - even in Connecticut where I hear there is a rule that fines the coach for running up the score.  Their fine is assessed by the state, not the officials on the field.

Stick with the tasks you ARE given and stop trying to change a coaches' moral compass.  It wouldn't work anyway as their compass is permanently askew. 

Actually, the rule here in CT is that the HC is suspended from the next game if his team's winning margin is 50+ points. Dumbest rule ever.

[110]

Well, I'll be damned.

Interesting thing tonight. Under Canadian rules, an intentional grounding originating from the endzone gives an option to the defence - safety or treat as if the pass were incomplete, roll the down and go from there.

The coach of the defence was up by a zillion - and declined the chance to score two more points. I clarified this after the game.

Of course, we had a weird play on the next down that resulted in a safety anyhow.

[LarryW60]

Every once in a while you run into a coach that "gets it".  Sounds like you just found one! 

[blindref757]

Tonight, JV game--NCAA rules.  Team B blocks Team A's extra point attempt behind the NZ and the ball trickles down to the B 1yd line and comes to rest.  No whistle...No action--but players still moving.  Both teams looking to their bench for instruction...still no whistle.  Finally B goes and surrounds it with 3 players, but refuses to touch the ball.  After about 3-4 seconds of waiting for any other action, I blow the whistle.  The B team coach comes out hollering at me for not blowing the whistle quicker and then asks me about the rule.  I told him that the ball was live and that his team could have easily picked it up and attempted to run it 99 yards for 2 points.  He then delivers the line of the night..."But if we don't touch it, could the clock run until the quarter runs out?"  He was dead serious.  Yes...I laughed at him!!!

[HLinNC]

NFHS rules:

Visitor QB in shotgun formation, rolls left, pressured.  Receiver on my side gets held around the waist by the DB as he begins to pass him.  They subsequently trip on each other.  QB gets pushed OOB behind the LOS.  I flag the hold and report to the WH.

Visiting HC loves the foul, hates the enforcement.  First he demands a spot foul.   When I tell them that isn't happening, he begs for previous spot enforcement:

HC- "Wouldn't that be previous spot?"
Me: "No sir, running play, your QB got pushed out of bounds.  We'll enforce from the end of the run."
HC: "But the PASS WASN'T THROWN!" (with this "a-ha! got you! expression on his face")
Me: "Exactly- and you do get your down back."

[VALJ]

A calls a screen pass.  The linebacker from B (down by about 6 touchdowns in the second quarter) tackles the receiver before the ball gets even halfway to the receiver.  I (working as the L) and the U both have flags down that land within about 6 inches of each other.  The B coach (on my sideline, and what a joy he was all night) goes absolutely nuts, saying that we can't call that foul on a pass behind the line of scrimmage.  I tell him that he's correct, IF we were calling DPI, and that if his LB had just hit the receiver, we wouldn't have thrown our flags.  But, since he tackled the man before the ball got there, it was holding.  Of course, it was a terrible call, and it was terrible that we were "taking the game away from his kids."

Apparently, his team would have scored 7 unanswered touchdowns if it weren't for our "terrible" holding call.

[110]

Apparently, his team would have scored 7 unanswered touchdowns if it weren't for our "terrible" holding call.

Ever notice you're only ever responsible for losses, never for wins?

[VALJ]

Oh, definitely.  Nobody ever says "Dammit, you're giving us the game, ref!" 

[LarryW60]

Heh. Regional Semifinals this past Friday.  I didn't have a game to work so I get to watch the home team for a change as a spectator.  During the game I counted five flags for inelligibles downfield with most coming later in the game along with some other "not thinking" penalties.  Home team wins despite all that and by a comfortable margin.  After the game one of the assistant coaches (who knows I officiate) see me and "thanks" me - with "me" being our official's association - for "throwing all those flags to prevent us running up the score more." I was very confused until I realized he was being sarcastic.  He then said something about how EVERYBODY has inelligibles downfield and why are we starting to call it now?

[AlUpstateNY]

The difference bewtween ignorant and stupid.  Ignorant can be corrected by providing knowledge, stupid is forever.

[RWPatten]

I have an 8 man game at Langston University. There are temporary sidelines for the game on the field. The players and coaches are to stay behind the college sidelines, according to the university's rules.

We have a play where the visiting team throws a pass in the end zone. Defender jumps up in front of the receiver and bats it away. Receiver is knocked down after the pass flies by. Nothing to call. Visiting team HC goes ballistic and is out to the field. I am working H that night, but am normally the U. Needless to say, my flag goes up. My R says" Sideline warning Ryan?" I say, within earshot of the HC, "Hell no! 15 yards for that garbage!

Did not hear another word the rest of the night. I have been a HS Basketball Coach for 10 years, I'm not putting up with that stuff.

[saofficial(aust)]

New coach to our league hadn't won a game all year but was looking for every break he could.

Forward pass landed on the ground behind the LOS. Coach starts yelling 'live ball live ball get it' We had blown it incomplete. Not sure what type of game he was playing.

This one not from a coach but a captain. Just had our grand final couple weekends back. Team A was on 4th down and caught the ball short of the first down. Now we always start our series on a hash mark so it is easy to see when a first down is made. Easy right? Well for us yes but with the ball an easy half yard short captain comes in questioning my signal for first down, other captain speaks to U and walks off in agreement it is turnover of downs while my captain gets on bended knee  lining himself up with the hash mark in the middle of the field and the ball about 6ft away towards the sideline. Was about to walk away when I decided nope not happy about that at all, clearly short half a yard, USC to the captain.

It was a real shame because this team payed well but only after they had 4 x PF/USC penalties in the one play, but alas there were a few more to come. Naturally we cost them the game.

[Aussie-Zebra]

Our GF's this Saturday - feel like coming over to do a game Grant ?

[AP]

I had a coach (Middle School) last Tuesday behind 48-0 with a running clock (Mercy Rule)still calling time outs at 2 min.'s wanting to make sure he had the right call for his 1st string offense.
The other team was playing all their bench players at the time.
He wonders why he can't get officials who want to call their games.

I don't believe a running clock is legal. The teams may choose to shorten the period lengths but they cannot have the clock continue to run.

[Grant - AR]

I don't believe a running clock is legal. The teams may choose to shorten the period lengths but they cannot have the clock continue to run.

I think the running clock is a league-adopted mercy rule.

[LarryW60]

Agreed.  The mercy rule is determined by the State.  If they want to go with a true running clock, then it's legal.

[AlUpstateNY]

I don't believe a running clock is legal. The teams may choose to shorten the period lengths but they cannot have the clock continue to run.

NF:3-1-4" A period or periods may be shortened in any emergency by greement of the opposing coaches and the Referee.  By mutual agreement of the opposing coaches and the referee, any remaining period may be shortenedat any time or the game terminated".  Thankfully this rule is sufficiently vague and is ambiguous enough to allow rational adults, given the authority to shorten a game, the flexibility to determine how they want to shorten it.

The rule does not address how the remaining time will be shortened, nor prohibit any specific means of doing so.  That seems to suggest that if the opposing coaches and the Referee agree to a running clock, that would fit within the parameters of the rule, and once that adjustment begins, changing it would require the agreement, again, of both coaches AND the Referee.

[LarryW60]

Al, I don't think one team dominating another would qualify as an "emergency", which is what the rule you quote is designed for.  This rule was put in for the purpose of weather or other disaster-related issues.

[AlUpstateNY]

Al, I don't think one team dominating another would qualify as an "emergency", which is what the rule you quote is designed for.  This rule was put in for the purpose of weather or other disaster-related issues.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and NF: 1-1-6 firmly designates the Referee as "the beholder".  Keep in mind, we're talking about a 48-0 Middle School game, during which you've given both coaches the opportunity to agree, or disagree.

[LarryW60]

NF:3-1-4" A period or periods may be shortened in any emergency by agreement of the opposing coaches and the Referee.  By mutual agreement of the opposing coaches and the referee, any remaining period may be shortened at any time or the game terminated".

 

Well, the beholder better be ready to explain to the applicable league why that particular beholder decided to throw out the league's existing mercy rules in favor of declaring that a state of "emergency" existed because of the score. I'm sure the winning team would LOVE to know they caused the beholder to declare a state of "emergency".  They would then try to have one called in every subsequent game.

The beholder is not going to have an easy job parsing that bit of creative rule-reading.  If he tries to claim that the second sentence is separate from the first and so the "in any emergency" clause does not apply, then he'll have to explain why the first sentence was even necessary to be written as the second one would seem to apply equally well in both emergency and non-emergency situations alike.

[James]

I'll tell you, I am not used to working white hat!
Late in a blow out game (equivalent to PeeWee for you, but the kids are bigger). Winning coach is running up the score big. We have 'mercy rule' of running clock in this league if the score difference is 30 points.

Late in the game - about 1/2 minute left.

Winning team has a long run for a TD. Flags for offensive holding and defensive illegal use of hands (I think, it was 2 live ball fouls in any event)...
I signal offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.
Winning coach - 'But it was a touchdown!'
Me - 'Yes coach, but we have 2 live ball fouls that offset, we replay the down.'
WC - 'But it was a touchdown, you can't take away a touchdown!' (said about 6 times as we walk back to the previous spot)
WC - 'I don't get the touchdown?'
Me - 'No coach, we have offsetting penalties and are going to replay the down.'
WC - 'Well give me the time back then, OK?'

(For completeness sake, the next play was the last, and they scored a TD on it).