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Offline Curious

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PAT Question
« on: December 15, 2011, 12:24:44 PM »
High School official with NCAA PAT questions...

A has just scored and is attempting PAT by kick.  Kick is blocked, picked up (possessed) by B1 at his own 1 yard line who is then hit by A2 and fumbles the ball:

1. at his 15 yardline where A3 then picks up the fumble and returns it for what would be a TD

or

2. into his own end zone where A falls on it

Is A's advance after recovering B's fumble "legal"?
If so, how many points are scored by A in each case?

Thanks.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: PAT Question
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 12:35:13 PM »
Two points for team A in both situations. The kicked ball remains live as it did not touch ground in the team B end zone untouched by team B beyond the neutral zone. The fumbled ball remains live as usual. Recovery and advance by team A are legal.
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Offline Curious

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Re: PAT Question
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 01:09:17 PM »
Quote from: Kalle on December 15, 2011, 12:35:13 PM
Two points for team A in both situations. The kicked ball remains live as it did not touch ground in the team B end zone untouched by team B beyond the neutral zone. The fumbled ball remains live as usual. Recovery and advance by team A are legal.

Thanks Kalle.  But. now, the next question:

If the kick HAD been touched by B beyond the NZ, gone into the EZ, touched ground, and then was recovered by A, would A still score 2 points - or would the kick be "dead"?
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: PAT Question
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 01:37:44 PM »
By rule the kick is only dead if it touches the ground in the EZ "untouched" by B.

Per Rule 4-1-3-c, the ball becomes dead:  When a touchdown, touchback, safety, field goal or successful try occurs; or when an unsuccessful field-goal attempt that has crossed the neutral zone and is then untouched by Team B lands in Team B’s end zone or out of bounds (A.R. 6-3-9-I).

So if it's muffed by B beyond the NZ prior to touching ground and then is recovered by A in the EZ then it's 2 points.

Also, AR 6-3-9-III is basically the same play:  A Team B player touches a scrimmage kick in flight in Team B’s end zone, and Team A downs the ball in the end zone. RULING: Team A touchdown (Rules 6-3-3 and 8-2-1-e).
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Offline Osric Pureheart

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Re: PAT Question
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 02:08:35 PM »
Quote from: Curious on December 15, 2011, 01:09:17 PM
If the kick HAD been touched by B beyond the NZ, gone into the EZ, touched ground, and then was recovered by A, would A still score 2 points - or would the kick be "dead"?

It depends what kind of touch it is, thanks to NCAA's magical expanding neutral zone.  6-3-1-b:

Quote
The blocking of a scrimmage kick by an opponent of the kicking team who is not more than three yards beyond the neutral zone is considered to have occurred within or behind that zone (Rule 2-11-5).

This is to stop Team A getting the ball back cheaply because Team B tried to block the kick.  So, if the touch came from an attempted block, it's dead when it lands; if it came for some other reason, it remains live on landing.
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