Trick Play - Snap Not Imminent (video)

[fencewire]

I don't think anyone said it was easy... but here's a situation for you..

Coach... "What is that flag for, there is nothing in the rule book that prohibits that"  (whatever it may be)

No sir it isn't, but Rogers Redding released a bulletin in 2008, you may not have seen it, in that bulletin he said that this was a foul.

Coach... 

Hard to tell them to "reference the rule book" when the rule book doesn't even have "everything" in it...

Also hard to say that the coaches on the Rules Committee make the rules, but then on the side the Rules Editor releases his own take on one thing or the other and that becomes a silent rule that isn't in the book, and likely hasn't been vetted by the Rules Committee.

These situations are rare, but it is interesting...

[El Macman]

I don't think anyone said it was easy... but here's a situation for you..

Coach... "What is that flag for, there is nothing in the rule book that prohibits that"  (whatever it may be)

No sir it isn't, but Rogers Redding released a bulletin in 2008, you may not have seen it, in that bulletin he said that this was a foul.

Coach... 

Hard to tell them to "reference the rule book" when the rule book doesn't even have "everything" in it...

Also hard to say that the coaches on the Rules Committee make the rules, but then on the side the Rules Editor releases his own take on one thing or the other and that becomes a silent rule that isn't in the book, and likely hasn't been vetted by the Rules Committee.

These situations are rare, but it is interesting...

By what you write, it sounds as though you worry or care about what a coach thinks. If you've done your job in studying and knowing the rules and their approved interpretations, and applying that knowledge correctly on the field, you owe the coach nothing more than a report of what was called. You do not owe him a an explanation as to where you obtained your knowledge. If he needs/wants education regarding rules, he can approach the appropriate educator/interpreter at a more appropriate time. If you are in a TV break or something and have time, fine. But, otherwise, in the middle of a game ain't the appropriate time. Just tell him, respectfully, "Coach, I've reported the (foul/ruling) to you. At the next time-out, I can try to explain it to you, if you'd like. But, right now, I've got to focus and concentrate on the next play." And then you move on. At the next break, approach him, and see if he wants to listen to you. If so, tell him that the Sec-Ed issues interpretations bulletins from time-to-time, which are available to ANYONE via the NCAA web site, and the ruling made on the field was directed by one of the bulletins. When (not "if") he starts to argue, then you just tell him that he asked a question and you've given him the answer; and, if he doesn't believe you, you can't help him. Move on.

We all just need to know and do our job and not worry about what coaches think.

[Curious]

By what you write, it sounds as though you worry or care about what a coach thinks. If you've done your job in studying and knowing the rules and their approved interpretations, and applying that knowledge correctly on the field, you owe the coach nothing more than a report of what was called. You do not owe him a an explanation as to where you obtained your knowledge. If he needs/wants education regarding rules, he can approach the appropriate educator/interpreter at a more appropriate time. If you are in a TV break or something and have time, fine. But, otherwise, in the middle of a game ain't the appropriate time. Just tell him, respectfully, "Coach, I've reported the (foul/ruling) to you. At the next time-out, I can try to explain it to you, if you'd like. But, right now, I've got to focus and concentrate on the next play." And then you move on. At the next break, approach him, and see if he wants to listen to you. If so, tell him that the Sec-Ed issues interpretations bulletins from time-to-time, which are available to ANYONE via the NCAA web site, and the ruling made on the field was directed by one of the bulletins. When (not "if") he starts to argue, then you just tell him that he asked a question and you've given him the answer; and, if he doesn't believe you, you can't help him. Move on.

We all just need to know and do our job and not worry about what coaches think.

Careful "El"; you're sounding like "UpstateNY Al" here.....and we definitely don't need another one!

[JasonTX]

I don't think anyone said it was easy... but here's a situation for you..

Coach... "What is that flag for, there is nothing in the rule book that prohibits that"  (whatever it may be)

No sir it isn't, but Rogers Redding released a bulletin in 2008, you may not have seen it, in that bulletin he said that this was a foul.

Coach... 

Hard to tell them to "reference the rule book" when the rule book doesn't even have "everything" in it...

Also hard to say that the coaches on the Rules Committee make the rules, but then on the side the Rules Editor releases his own take on one thing or the other and that becomes a silent rule that isn't in the book, and likely hasn't been vetted by the Rules Committee.

These situations are rare, but it is interesting...

Actually, the Rules Editor does not just release the bulletins until they have met the rules committees blessings.  The Bulletins are sent out by Ty Halpin from the NCAA.  So yes, they did go through the process to be approved.

[fencewire]

Actually, the Rules Editor does not just release the bulletins until they have met the rules committees blessings.  The Bulletins are sent out by Ty Halpin from the NCAA.  So yes, they did go through the process to be approved.

good to know.

[fencewire]

By what you write, it sounds as though you worry or care about what a coach thinks. If you've done your job in studying and knowing the rules and their approved interpretations, and applying that knowledge correctly on the field, you owe the coach nothing more than a report of what was called. You do not owe him a an explanation as to where you obtained your knowledge. If he needs/wants education regarding rules, he can approach the appropriate educator/interpreter at a more appropriate time. If you are in a TV break or something and have time, fine. But, otherwise, in the middle of a game ain't the appropriate time. Just tell him, respectfully, "Coach, I've reported the (foul/ruling) to you. At the next time-out, I can try to explain it to you, if you'd like. But, right now, I've got to focus and concentrate on the next play." And then you move on. At the next break, approach him, and see if he wants to listen to you. If so, tell him that the Sec-Ed issues interpretations bulletins from time-to-time, which are available to ANYONE via the NCAA web site, and the ruling made on the field was directed by one of the bulletins. When (not "if") he starts to argue, then you just tell him that he asked a question and you've given him the answer; and, if he doesn't believe you, you can't help him. Move on.

We all just need to know and do our job and not worry about what coaches think.

mountain meet molehill, I don't think I mentioned anything about teaching coaches or worrying what they think on the sidelines during the game. 

I think I mentioned the fact that there may be interpretations/addendums of/to rules that cannot be found anywhere in the rule book and that IMO wasn't a good thing.  Also, the fact that when asked about where these rules were in print  (didn't say it was in a game, could be a scrimmage, or over a cup of tea) that the rule book was not the end all be all as many would like it to be.

AND

I said it was rare that anything like that ever comes up.

[mbyron]

Actually, the Rules Editor does not just release the bulletins until they have met the rules committees blessings.  The Bulletins are sent out by Ty Halpin from the NCAA.  So yes, they did go through the process to be approved.

So you're saying that the "A" in "AR" actually means something? Good to know!

[JasonTX]

All the bulletins are sent to the coaches in all the college conferences.  They are at least provided the document that the officials get and have the same opportunity to learn the rules interpretations that we receive.

[Welpe]

I don't think anyone said it was easy... but here's a situation for you..

Coach... "What is that flag for, there is nothing in the rule book that prohibits that"  (whatever it may be)

No sir it isn't, but Rogers Redding released a bulletin in 2008, you may not have seen it, in that bulletin he said that this was a foul.

Coach... 

Hard to tell them to "reference the rule book" when the rule book doesn't even have "everything" in it...

Also hard to say that the coaches on the Rules Committee make the rules, but then on the side the Rules Editor releases his own take on one thing or the other and that becomes a silent rule that isn't in the book, and likely hasn't been vetted by the Rules Committee.

These situations are rare, but it is interesting...

You don't have to make it that complicated...

"Coach, by interpretation, it is an unfair act to commit an act that leads the defense to believe the snap is not imminent."

On the field any further discussion on that is fruitless.

On a side note, I had a middle school coach this year tell me in pre-game they were going to do something similar.  Fortunately he didn't argue with me when I told him it wasn't legal.

[clearwall]

Aren't all the ARs and interps BASED on the rules, anyway? You kind of make it sound like RR made things up as he saw fit. I dont remember reading anything that wasnt rooted in some rule somewhere

[OB1]

Nearly identical play occurred in the MT vs. MT State game in Bozeman two weeks ago...UNS was called and enforced.

[With_Two_Flakes]

What is a problem about the bulletins is that whilst they are sent out to the appropriate folks at the Div I, II, III levels, if you are outside of that grouping then have to either periodically check for new ones from time to time or hear about a new one on Forums etc.

Does anyone know what mechanisms are in place to alert those States that use NCAA for High School football (Ma and Tx) of the issue of a new bulletin? What about other long-term users such as Japan and Mexico?

We use NCAA Rules over here in the UK and Europe. Indeed NCAA rules are the worldwide standard for football - apart from our Canadian cousins of course . Hopefully some kind of arrangement may be made in the future between the NCAA and IFAF (International Federation of American Football) so that the bulletins can be distributed worldwide.

[TXMike]

The NCAA could care less about any state or country that chooses to use the NCAA rules. We do so "at our own peril"  so to speak so it is up to us to learn anything new if we want to do so/  They only care about their member institutions.  Texas HS football used to have an active rep in the room at rules committee meetings but that went away quite a few years ago. Now we can't even get in the room.

[Atlanta Blue]

Indeed NCAA rules are the worldwide standard for football - apart from our Canadian cousins of course

Huh?  There are 13,926 high schools using FED rules in the US.  And that doesn't count the junior high and youth league teams that use FED rules.

There are 2,467 schools using NCAA rules, and that counts all levels of NCAA, NAIA, Junior Colleges, Community Colleges, Texas and Massachusetts High schools.

Unless you are hiding 11,000 teams overseas, NCAA rules aren't the "standard".  FED rules are the most used rule set in all of football.  I'm not saying FED rules are better or worse, there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  But NCAA rules aren't the most popular or used rules set, by a factor of five or so.

[Kalle]

Unless you are hiding 11,000 teams overseas, NCAA rules aren't the "standard".  FED rules are the most used rule set in all of football.  I'm not saying FED rules are better or worse, there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  But NCAA rules aren't the most popular or used rules set, by a factor of five or so.

FED may be the most used rule set if you count the number of teams, but if you take the worldwide coverage, NCAA beats FED hands down. I don't know of any other country that used FED except for the US (does Mexico use FED in youth ball?) and I know dozens that use exclusively NCAA.

[El Macman]

How are we alerted? Well, almost everyone working NCAA football is a paid member of the CFO, and the CFO notifies all members of new bulletins, videos, etc., as they are made available (on the CFO web site). The CFO is open to anyone with $100 and a an e-mail address. Become registered, and you can get the same info right along with everyone in the US. How you raise the $100 and how that info gets further distributed I'll leave to your imagination (in full compliance with all US and international copyright laws, of course).

What is a problem about the bulletins is that whilst they are sent out to the appropriate folks at the Div I, II, III levels, if you are outside of that grouping then have to either periodically check for new ones from time to time or hear about a new one on Forums etc.

Does anyone know what mechanisms are in place to alert those States that use NCAA for High School football (Ma and Tx) of the issue of a new bulletin? What about other long-term users such as Japan and Mexico?

We use NCAA Rules over here in the UK and Europe. Indeed NCAA rules are the worldwide standard for football - apart from our Canadian cousins of course . Hopefully some kind of arrangement may be made in the future between the NCAA and IFAF (International Federation of American Football) so that the bulletins can be distributed worldwide.

[Welpe]

How are we alerted? Well, almost everyone working NCAA football is a paid member of the CFO, and the CFO notifies all members of new bulletins, videos, etc., as they are made available (on the CFO web site). The CFO is open to anyone with $100 and a an e-mail address. Become registered, and you can get the same info right along with everyone in the US. How you raise the $100 and how that info gets further distributed I'll leave to your imagination (in full compliance with all US and international copyright laws, of course).

The CFO came out with an offering for TASO members to become members at a reduced rate. I joined when they unveiled it this last season so for us that's a boon. Maybe something could be arranged for associations outside the US as well?

[TxSkyBolt]

There are 2,467 schools using NCAA rules, and that counts all levels of NCAA, NAIA, Junior Colleges, Community Colleges, Texas and Massachusetts High schools.

I think your numbers are off a little.

According to the Texas Education Agency (TEA), as of 2010 Texas had 1507 High Schools, 321 Junior High Schools and 1295 middle schools.  Total of 3123.  An extremely large number of those have multiple football teams, all using the NCAA football code.

Best Regards,

Brad

[Atlanta Blue]

I think your numbers are off a little.

According to the Texas Education Association (TEA), as of 2010 Texas had 1507 High Schools, 321 Junior High Schools and 1295 middle schools.  Total of 3123.  An extremely large number of those have multiple football teams, all using the NCAA football code.

Best Regards,

Brad

My post above specifically said HIGH schools in those states.  But comparatively, it only includes HIGH schools for all of the other states as well.

So if you wanted to count the middle/junior high schools in Massachusetts and Texas, you would need to count those schools in all of the other states as well.

No matter how you want to count it, there are five times more teams using FED rules rather than NCAA rules.  And I would also contend that Texas and Massachusetts don't truly use NCAA rules, they use a modified version of NCAA rules.  The Massachusetts exceptions take up three pages!

Look, I'm not advocating the superiority of any rule set, there are positives and negatives to all of them, FED, NCAA and NFL.  In my work, I use all three, often in the same weekend.  Just countering that NCAA rules are the "standard".  The most used set of rules, and therfore the "standard" would be FED rules, and it's not even close.

[NVFOA_Ump]

........  And I would also contend that Texas and Massachusetts don't truly use NCAA rules, they use a modified version of NCAA rules.  The Massachusetts exceptions take up three pages!

True that we in MA have "exceptions", but those "three pages" of exceptions are all game clock, play clock, and game administration types of differences.  Once the ball is in play between the lines, it's by the NCAA book.

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[Atlanta Blue]

Excuse, two pages, not three.  You were the one that was kind enough to share these with me previously.

But as a kicking coach, I see 23' 4" goal posts, use of a kicking block on place kicks, a 2" tee and kickoffs from the 40.  Those aren't administrative issues, those are pretty significant rule changes that coincidently (or not) match FED rules!

[Diablo]

How are we alerted? Well, almost everyone working NCAA football is a paid member of the CFO, and the CFO notifies all members of new bulletins, videos, etc., as they are made available (on the CFO web site). The CFO is open to anyone with $100 and a an e-mail address. Become registered, and you can get the same info right along with everyone in the US. How you raise the $100 and how that info gets further distributed I'll leave to your imagination (in full compliance with all US and international copyright laws, of course).

If you're looking for a cheaper source for acquiring the bulletins, sign onto Rom Gilbert's email distribution list.  Along with preseason missives, in season quizzes & videos and postseason videos, he emails bulletins the day they come out.  His fee ..... Nada.