10-sec runoff question

[sj_31]

Yes, I should probably search the archives first, but...


Either team commits a foul for which the potential for a 10-sec. runoff would apply. However, there is an injury at the end of the down as well.

Could we still have a runoff?

FYI it's different than the wording for 10-sec runoff for a helmet coming off

[AIAFA171]

Rule 3-4-4 e reads as " The 10-second subtraction does not apply when there are offsetting fouls."

Se also AR 3-4-4 IV.
Fourth quarter with the game clock running. Second and five at the B-20. Tackle B77 is in the neutral zone at the snap, but does not make contact. QB A12 rolls out to pass, runs to the B-17 and throws a forward
pass, which falls incomplete. The game clock reads 0:15.
RULING: Team A illegal forward pass and Team B offside. Offsetting fouls. No 10-second subtraction. Second and 5 at the B-20. The game clock remains at 15 seconds and starts on the snap.

Hope this helps!
Ciao

[sj_31]

Sorry for the confusion. I meant that one team commits a foul, not both (thus offsetting).

Example: A throws an incomplete illegal forward pass that, based on the game situation, would entail a potential -10. However, upon stopping the clock for the foul, the crew also notices an injured player.

[jimbulger]

Its my understanding that if the foul is not the sole reason the game clock stops then the 10 sec run off does not apply.  If it is a defensive injury the Play Clock will get set to 40

3-4-4b
b. The 10-second rule does not apply if the game clock is not running when the
foul occurs or if the foul does not cause the game clock to stop (e.g., illegal
formation).

[sj_31]

I agree that the wording with regards to the -10 and helmets states "only reason", but those words are not in the section relating to fouls that occur that are potential -10.
I don't think we're going to find it in the rulebook or ARs...it's going to be in an RR bulletin or interp.

[Morningrise]

The runoff rule applies. A "foul that causes the clock to stop" is defined to include illegal forward passes that are incomplete. That's regardless of whether there are other conditions (injury, helmet, safety, first down) that would also cause the clock to stop.

[El Macman]

10. During a down in the fourth quarter A22’s helmet comes off (no foul by Team B) and B77 is on the ground with an injury when the down ends. The ball carrier is tackled inbounds. When the officials stop the game clock it reads 0:58.
a. The play clock is set at 40 seconds.
b. The play clock is set at 25 seconds.
c. Team B may elect a 10-second runoff.
REFERENCES: 3-3-5, 3-3-9-b, AR 3-3-9-III
COMMENTS: Because the clock stops for both the helmet off and the injured player, there is no option for a 10-second runoff.

I do not have a definitive answer. However, RR's comment to Quiz 1, play 10, sure implies that the timing of the injury may be the key factor. The Quiz question has the injured player being down with the injury before the end of the down. So, the clock is stopped for the helmet and the injury, with the injury T/O 'trumping' the helmet with regard to the play clock. So, by extension, the when there is a foul and an injury DURING the play, again, the injury trumps the foul. So, no 10SS. If the injured player goes to the ground or indicates the need for assistance clearly after the ball becomes dead, the clock has already been stopped for the foul, so the 10SS would apply. If we are told to rule any injury, regardless of timing, as trumping the 10SS, then we'll have guys dropping like flies in such instances. Granted, they are unusual-to-rare circumstances, but it could easily change the outcome of a game.

[TxSkyBolt]

I think the point is the rule on helmets off plays it specifically mentions the "stopping the clock for helmet as the only reason for stopping the clock" where a foul subject to 10 second zap does not.  Oversight?