QB kneel

[Bwest]

I know we like to talk about this play a lot but we had a situation last night that I'd like to bring to the group. I've already gotten some good feedback but would like to hear some more opinions.

Team A is kneeling out the clock. On the first kneel down, the QB stalls for a few seconds before taking a knee. The defense is still charging hard. The officials start talking to coaches / players (depending on position) to be smart. Of course, the next play the QB hesitates for a few seconds and gets lit up by a team B linebacker a hair before his knee would have hit the ground. The linebackers first contact was with his helmet to the QB's face mask but I didn't have a good look at to whether the hit was with the crown of the helmet or the front.

The U threw a flag and we had a bit of a crew discussion. Eventually we ended up going with a personal foul. At the time I argued for picking up the flag but now I'm glad we marked it off from a game management standpoint.


So what do you do here? It was one of those plays that with enough push I feel like I could be talked into DQing the player or picking up the flag. That's such a wide difference that it makes me uncomfortable.

[HLinNC]

The emphasis is to get the head out of football.  If the B player used his helmet to initiate the contact it was either a spear or face tackling.  If your U deemed flagrant, he has every right to DQ.

This stuff is tough and is really hard judgment calls but the Fed wants it made.

[Atlanta Blue]

QB needs to know if he's delaying taking a knee, he's a runner and he's fair game.  That being said, contact with the helmet is a foul, whether he's a runner or not.

As to a DQ, that's a judgment call.  No one here can tell you if he should or shouldn't be DQ'd without seeing the situation.

[squigpitt]

When he quarterback is going to take a knee there should be NO delay in the action for the R blow the play dead.  Immediately after the snap, blow the play dead and stop all action.  the U and wings should be speaking to the defense about what you expect.  There will be NO contact of the quarterback nor should you accept any cheap shots against the offense.  At this point of a game when the offense can kneel down and allow the clock to run it is now time for the official to manage the game.
For the play that you described, I definitely have a DQ.  The linebacker lead with the crown of his helmet and had the intent of punishing the quarterback.  This is targeting and is flagrant.  As has been stated many times about the new rules, the NFHS wants the head shots taken out of the game and when we start to call and enforce these rules the coaches will start to coach these actions out of the game.
MAKE THE CALL.

[FBUmp]

The linebackers first contact was with his helmet to the QB's face mask but I didn't have a good look at to whether the hit was with the crown of the helmet or the front.

What does that matter?

Targeting is an act of taking aim and initiating contact to an opponent above the shoulders with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulders.

Where do you read that the contact has to be with the crown of the helmet?

[Rulesman]

When he quarterback is going to take a knee there should be NO delay in the action for the R blow the play dead.  Immediately after the snap, blow the play dead and stop all action. 

Now you have inserted an IAW into the equation. You are correct. Make the call. But don't insert yourself into the play.

[squigpitt]

By interpretation: should the receiver of the snap fake taking a knee, it is an unsporting act.
We are not inserting ourselves into the play, they have declare what they will do and to prevent anything from happening that shouldn't, stop the play.  Let them do what they declared and no more.  These types of plays are not how you want a game to end.

[HLinNC]

Oh no, down the rabbit hole we go.

 

[NorCalMike]

Probably should just lock this discussion as we aren't going to get anywhere again. 

[FLAHL]

One note of thanks to the guys who comment on this topic, especially AB.  I had a youth game last night with one team leading by 6 points and 1:05 to play. The team with the lead had the ball, and the other team had no TOs left. The coach told me "We're taking a knee" and I responded "Tell your line to block because the D is still playing and tell your QB to go straight to his knee."  Two snaps later the game ended without incident.