TCU v WVU: Free kick out of bounds

[ajv]

I don't have the play in front of me but I made some notes at the time:

TCU v West Virginia 4th quarter 14:56

Kickoff at A-35 heads towards the sideline. Receiving team player runs (possibly signalling fair catch - irrelevant) and while running touches the ball (at B-18) while off the ground. He gains possession and first lands with his foot out of bounds. Ruled: Free kick out of bounds.

I'm not sure about the while running description - he could have jumped a bit. So consider two cases (a) while running; and (b) jumps and.

It was also a bang-bang play so I'm not criticizing the on field officials - I'm just clarifying the rule in my mind.

The booth officiating consultant said the item to consider was "... did he come down inbounds with the ball. It appears he did not therefore it is a kick out of bounds". This is in line with the 2013 AR 6-2-2-IV (which if I recall correctly is the one that is at odds with the rest of the rules.)

However, it is now 2014 so we have the new editorial changes. e.g. "An inbounds player who becomes airborne remains in bounds until he is out of bounds."

In case (a) while running the the player is not airborne ("other than normal running action") but he is not out of bounds so he is inbounds.

In case (b) jumps and the player is airborne but was inbounds so remains inbounds. Play Situations - 2014 Editorial Changes #3 seems to cover this play.

Do you have a free kick out of bounds on this play?

[Legacy Zebra]

Since he's coming from inbounds, it doesn't matter if he is running or if he jumped. This is not a free kick out of bounds because it was touched by inbounds player. The only way this would be a foul would be if he landed out of bounds before touching the ball.

[Andrew McCarthy]

I haven't seen this but I was listening on the radio and as somewhat puzzled. What they were describing was NOT a foul for KOB. I'm surprised it wasn't reviewed.

[BlindZebra]

I beg to differ. To complete a catch a player must secure control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground and touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body.  Then maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game (Rule 2-4-3-a-1,2,3,).  When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

[Morningrise]

I beg to differ. To complete a catch a player must secure control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground and touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body.  Then maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game (Rule 2-4-3-a-1,2,3,).  When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

But the kick was TOUCHED by the B player prior to it going out of bounds. When/where/whether it was caught/recovered has no bearing on the foul.

[Andrew McCarthy]

When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

Pretty-much what the "expert" in the booth said.

[bossman72]

This was a rule change this year with the new definition of OOB.  This should NOT be a KOB and R should get it where he stepped out.

[Kalle]

I beg to differ. To complete a catch a player must secure control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground and touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body.  Then maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game (Rule 2-4-3-a-1,2,3,).  When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

How do you see the A.R. 6-2-2-IV to apply to this type of play?

"Free kick at the A-35. B17 leaps from inbounds and is the first player to touch Team A’s free kick when he grasps the ball while airborne. He then lands out of bounds with the ball in his control. RULING: Not a foul for free kick out of bounds. B17 is inbounds when he touches the kick. Team B will have the ball at the yard line where B17 crossed the sideline. (Rule 2-27-15)"

[NVFOA_Ump]

I beg to differ. To complete a catch a player must secure control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground and touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body.  Then maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game (Rule 2-4-3-a-1,2,3,).  When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

That's incorrect under the current rules.  The free kick has been touched by an inbounds player in this case play.  Once that happens we cannot have a free kick OB.  "Completing" the catch (possession and control) do not apply here.

[centexsports]

Change B17 to A17:  What is the result of the play?

[Kalle]

Change B17 to A17:  What is the result of the play?

KOB, obviously. The catch/recovery is not completed inbounds and the ball is untouched by team B before it goes OOB. The ball is touched by A17 while it still remains alive.

If we change A17 to A88 and have him grasp and control the ball while airborne and then throw the ball backward to a team mate A90 before A17 lands out of bounds, now what do we have?

[Morningrise]

By the way, I would favor a rule change whereby KOB is not a foul unless the ball is truly outside the field of play when it becomes dead. I once had one of those test-question situations where the ball is inbounds until B11 grabs it with his foot on the line.

If it's not a foul when Team B touches an inbounds kick to knock it out of bounds, it doesn't seem fair that it's a foul when Team B touches an inbounds kick and *makes* it out of bounds.

[Legacy Zebra]

If we change A17 to A88 and have him grasp and control the ball while airborne and then throw the ball backward to a team mate A90 before A17 lands out of bounds, now what do we have?

Since the OP was at the B-18, you have a legally batted ball and a legal recovery by A90. The ball is dead as soon as it is possessed, 1st and 10 for Team A.

How about this:

Kickoff from the A-35. A88 leaps from in bounds, crosses the sideline at the A-46, and bats the ball backward to A20 who recovers it at the A-44.

[Kalle]

Kickoff from the A-35. A88 leaps from in bounds, crosses the sideline at the A-46, and bats the ball backward to A20 who recovers it at the A-44.

Still legal, the ball does not have to remain beyond the restraining line after it is touched beyond the line.

[BlindZebra]

I beg to differ. To complete a catch a player must secure control of a live ball in flight with his hands or arms before the ball touches the ground and touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body.  Then maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game (Rule 2-4-3-a-1,2,3,).  When the catching process was completed, the player was out of bounds and thus is a KOB.  Great call!

I would like to retract this statement.  After reading the rule book and seeing that the ball must be first touched and not caught, this KOB is not a foul.  The airborne player touched the ball before touching anything else OOB.  The slow-mo camera is a great shot of this.  However, in real time, I can understand why there was a flag tossed on this.  With the runner going at full speed toward the sideline, all that would happen to fast to be able to see the first touch and if the player was in or out.  I'm sure the L worked it like a pass to where he saw the foot out first, looked to see where the ball was and saw the receiver catching it.  I would be very interested to see what the grade was on this particular play.

[dvasques]

CFO quiz has this question

On the kickoff the ball bounces high near the sideline. B44 leaps from inbounds and grabs the ball while airborne over the field of play. Without touching the ground inbounds, he crosses the sideline in the air at the B-15 and lands out of bounds.
a. No foul for a free kick out of bounds
b. Team B will put the ball in play at the B-15.
c. B44 is inbounds when he first touches the ball.
d. All of the above.

I'd go with d

No foul, B44 is inbounds and B will put the ball in play at B-15