RTP NFHS Mechanic

[zebrastripes]

Does anyone know why, under NFHS, you're not supposed to signal personal foul before roughing the passer?

[Ralph Damren]

While we are only required to use #38 (personal foul) prior to #45 (face mask) and #30 (roughing/running into kicker/holder) to indicate a 5 or 15 yarder, I usually precede the following signals with #38 : #24,25,39,40,41 & 46. IMHO, this clarifies that a 15 yarder is coming and most everyone knows the PF signal. Over the years I've had #41 mistaken for #18(encroachment), #24 mistaken for #23 (failure to wear required equipment) and #46 mistaken for #30 (running into the kicker). This helps the PA announcer to get it correct or at least announce : "PERSONAL FOUL".
 

[bama_stripes]

Signals are used to communicate.  Don’t get caught up in what you “can’t” do — if you want to use the PF signal prior to the RTP signal, by all means, do so!

[zebrastripes]

Signals are used to communicate.  Don’t get caught up in what you “can’t” do — if you want to use the PF signal prior to the RTP signal, by all means, do so!

Great, but that wasn't the point of the question.

[CalhounLJ]

I’ll take a guess and say it’s because roughing the passer is not specifically listed in the 9-4-3 list of illegal personal contact fouls. It has its own subsection. But that’s only a wild guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TampaSteve]

Signals are used to communicate.  Don’t get caught up in what you “can’t” do — if you want to use the PF signal prior to the RTP signal, by all means, do so!

absolutely fine point, BUT I also suggest to do as the supervisor tells us what to do, too.

[bama_stripes]

Great, but that wasn't the point of the question.

OK, I’ll bite — what WAS the point?

[zebrastripes]

OK, I’ll bite — what WAS the point?

To find out why the PF signal isn't given before RTP under NFHS, regardless of what you do or what your state requires.

[bossman72]

To find out why the PF signal isn't given before RTP under NFHS, regardless of what you do or what your state requires.

If I were to take a wild guess, probably because the PF signal is "generic" while RPS signal is "specific".  As Ralph stated, those other signals need the PF signal to indicate 15 vs 5, so it's really not needed to "clarify" anything with RPS and the others.

NCAA has the PF signal prior to any 15 yard contact fouls to indicate that these fouls can bridge to the try or kickoff. (I THINK that's their rationale).

[Johnponz]

I believe the only time in NFHS rules to use the personal foul signal preceding another signal is a 15 yard facemask foul and roughing the kicker.  This is to distinguish those 2 from their "sister" 5 yard fouls. 

In my opinion the PF signal is redundant except in those cases and unneeded.  In NCAA the mechanics manual says to give it prior to all PFs.  That is where I really do not know why.  However, I do what I am told.

[CalhounLJ]

I believe the only time in NFHS rules to use the personal foul signal preceding another signal is a 15 yard facemask foul and roughing the kicker.  This is to distinguish those 2 from their "sister" 5 yard fouls. 

In my opinion the PF signal is redundant except in those cases and unneeded.  In NCAA the mechanics manual says to give it prior to all PFs.  That is where I really do not know why.  However, I do what I am told.

Not nitpicking here, just trying to understand NCAA mechanics. What do you mean by "prior to all Personal Fouls?" Isn't that redundant? It makes sense to me to use the Personal foul signal on all personal fouls.. Which fouls does the NCAA designate as personal fouls?

[bossman72]

Not nitpicking here, just trying to understand NCAA mechanics. What do you mean by "prior to all Personal Fouls?" Isn't that redundant? It makes sense to me to use the Personal foul signal on all personal fouls.. Which fouls does the NCAA designate as personal fouls?

Basically any contact foul in Rule 9.  EG: Chop blocks, clipping, hands to face, etc.  All of those have their own signal, but they want PF signal prior.  I think the only reason as I said before is for touchdown carry-over enforcement.

[CalhounLJ]

Gotcha. I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but another question- are there some fouls in NCAA that don’t carry over to the kickoff? Maybe any foul that is not a personal foul?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Johnponz]

It is a little more complicated than that but basically you are correct 5 and 10 yard penalties do not "carry over" to the kickoff.  The 5 and 10 yard penalties are declined by rule in this case.