Author Topic: Punt block and Batting  (Read 5781 times)

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Offline Ftblref

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Punt block and Batting
« on: June 27, 2019, 11:34:29 AM »
A 4/17 @ A-13. A4's punt is blocked and bounces at the A-16. The ball takes a reverse bounce and is rolling on A-8 when B96 bats the ball into A's end zone. A49 recovers in A's end zone and advances to A-38 where he is downed.
Ruling?

Johnponz

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 01:15:26 PM »
1st and 10 A B30.  The ball was beyond the NZ and hit the ground so it becomes dead when A recovers it in the EZ.  This result in a TB.  The bat by B is enforced at the end of the run which becomes the 20 after the TB.  This may not be the technical way to say it rules wise, but it is the way I think about it.

I probably should have added it is a TB and not a safety because B's bat added a new impetus.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 01:21:59 PM by Johnponz »

Offline Ftblref

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2019, 11:03:17 PM »
My question is,  how can you enforce the illegal bat at the succeeding spot? Isn't it a kick play?

Offline Kalle

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2019, 04:43:18 AM »
Batting is a basic spot foul. Possible basic spots for fouls during a kick play are:

- Previous spot
- Succeeding spot
- PSK spot.

PSK applies for team B fouls but only if team B will next put the ball in play, so it doesn't apply. Succeeding spot applies only for team A fouls. So, we are left with the previous spot. So, team A will most likely elect the TB but in some cases might take the penalty, thus 4/7@A-23.

Offline GuilhermeCohen

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2019, 06:05:26 AM »
The ball becomes dead in the end zone when A's player gets the ball, or not? Can i enforce in the end of the run?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2019, 09:20:00 AM »
The ball becomes dead in the end zone when A's player gets the ball, or not? Can i enforce in the end of the run?

Guilherme,

First, the pure result of the play is, indeed, a touchback, which would yield A, 1/10, A-20, since the impetus that caused the ball to be in A’s end zone when it became dead is the batting of the ball by Team B.  As a side note, the legal recovery by A of the legally kicked ball that had crossed the neutral zone (legal, because B had touched the ball when they batted it) does, in fact, end the kick play, and, technically, creates a running play, although the running play starts and ends simultaneously (also ending the down)).

Next, let’s consider the batting by Team B.  The ball was batted forward by B, so, thus, was illegal, and a foul.  As Kalle indicated, this is a Basic Spot enforcement foul that occurred during the kick play portion of a legal scrimmage kick down (not during the technical running play that occurred when A recovered the ball in the end zone).  The Basic Spot for fouls that occur during a legal scrimmage kick play is the previous spot, with application of the 3-and-1 principle related to that spot.  Since the foul was by the opponent of the team in possession, the penalty, if accepted, would be enforced at the Basic Spot. After the 10-yard distance penalty the down would be repeated, A, 4/7, A-23.

Again, as Kalle indicated, A would most likely decline the penalty, and take the result of the play.  There might be some game situation circumstances in which they would accept the penalty, but they would be quite rare.

Note:  In either case, due to the legal kick down, the play clock is 25/RFP, and the game clock starts on the next snap.

Robert
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 10:10:54 AM by ElvisLives »

Johnponz

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Re: Punt block and Batting
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2019, 10:07:34 AM »
this is all correct I answered too quickly