Face Mask

[Derek Teigen]

I was shadowing an official early on in my training and there was a play that always has stuck with me.  It happened on a play near the goal line and the official threw a flag on the defense for face masking but the official was not able to get a number as there was a big pile but the official noted that the ball carriers 'head dipped'.  quote:  "I saw the runners head dip"......

A couple of years ago when I was officiating I also had a situation where a ball carrier's head was 'dipped' but his back was too me and I could not see the grasp of his facemask.  I was pretty sure there was face masking but I couldn't see it.  The player asked me why I didn't call face masking and I told him I couldn't see it.  I asked my crewmates and nobody else di
d either.
It seems to me that this being a safety issue might be one of those times where if a players head is being turned by a defender but you can't actually see the hand of the defender on the opponents face mask that we could still call a foul there.  Just interested in your feed back and philosophy on this. 

[Etref]

Simple, you got it right.
If you do not SEE it don’t call it.

[AlUpstateNY]

It seems to me that this being a safety issue might be one of those times where if a players head is being turned by a defender but you can't actually see the hand of the defender on the opponents face mask that we could still call a foul there.  Just interested in your feed back and philosophy on this.

Derek, you were RIGHT! If YOU don't SEE it, you can't call it (EVER).  That's a slippery path than ONLY heads DOWNWARD.

[HLinNC]

The head can dip when you grab the chest plate or front collar of the jersey too. 

If you don't see the mask grasped and pulled, don't flag it.

[PABJNR]

Sometimes that head dip is caused by a pull in the front upper part of the chest. Had a play a few years ago where runner was running to me is saw trailer grab runner clearly at the top of breast plate. R sees runners head turn with defender’s hand high and throws flag.  I went to him and asked is your foul for a face mask? He asks why and I tell him.  How sure are you he asks. Quick answer…100%. He picked it up, point is sometimes what looks like a face mask from behind is not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BetweenTheLines]

You better be able to follow that hand up the arm and all the way to that jersey before you call it!!!

[NVFOA_Ump]

If you do not SEE it don’t call it.

No discussion needed here!  If you do not see the actual foul, no matter how "bad it looks" you don't have anything to call.

[Ralph Damren]

U.S. JUSTICE SYSTEM : One must be Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the eyes of ALL in the jury 

FOOTBALL FOUL CALLS : Be sure you saw it BEFORE you call it ...SEE IT.. THINK IT...CALL IT    flag

Over the years I've been (un)lucky  enough to have received many calls from     complaining coaches. +90% involve flags that SHOULDN'T  have been thrown  ; -10% involve flags that should have been , but weren't  .

[HLinNC]

enough to have received many calls from     complaining coaches. +90% involve flags that SHOULDN'T  have been thrown  ; -10% involve flags that should have been , but weren't  .

Our previous supervisor used to tell us, "I never get calls about the flag you didn't throw."   Probably a bit of an oversimplification, but it has always stuck with me when I'm out there on the field.

[Bubba Ump]

Before my officiating days, I coached a JV team at a decent sized school.  I had a kid that went on to MIT.  He played running back and middle linebacker.  He used to grab his own facemask in a pile and it got called more than once.  The only time he wasn't on the field was when we kicked off.  One kickoff he made the tackle.  I was watching film and asked him who he replaced on kickoff.  He smiled and the rest of the team started to snicker.  I asked again and he told me to watch next game.  Four man mechanics in those days.  He would stand behind either the HL or LJ depending on whether or not it was a home game.  As soon as the ball was kicked and the official turned to head down field he would come right off their up-field hip and cover the kick.  He never got caught.  This was almost 30 years ago and he's probably designing rockets for the government or the next Unabomber.  Hence, always look for that player.  See it and make sure, some of them are smarter than they look.

[AlUpstateNY]

  Hence, always look for that player.  See it and make sure, some of them are smarter than they look.

Never underestimate the imagination, and deviousness, of the American teenager. And that story sounds LONG before Tik Tock, Utube and Social Media

[Ralph Damren]

Never underestimate the imagination, and deviousness, of the American teenager. And that story sounds LONG before Tik Tock, Utube and Social Media

Yo, Yankee Al-
While thumbing thru the Bangor Daily Snooze, I noticed that the season opener is Sox vs Yanks  ! I ,thereby, offer the following offer:
 If the Yanks win that game, I'll close my next 5 post with...

[/YANKS RULE....SOX SUCK! 

IF THE SOX SHOULD WIN, YOU DO THE REVERSE 

 b]

[AlUpstateNY]

Actually Ralph there's only 1 game (the deciding game in the World Series) that decides who get's to claim, "WHO Rules" and that claim only lasts for a SINGLE year (unless of course the previous year winner, repeats).  Unfortunately, the Baseball Gods have decided the Yankees and Red Sox will NEVER be allowed to compete in THAT game.,,

The good news is, the Yanks and Sox WILL get to compete directly against each other in a series of games, which usually has a significant bearing on which gets to compete in the annual World Series.  Winning the intra-squad schedule is a laudable, but NOT mandatory, step in a longer, steeper climb to participating much less winning the ultimate prize of designating the (annual) champion who gets to claim the title of RULER of the Baseball World.

The 2022 Season is just beginning and has a LONG way to go before declaring who actually RULES.  Be patient enjoy the ride and remember the sage advice of a Yankee great. "It ain't over, till it's over."   

[KWH]

This drifted a little of topic.
Getting back to the original question I would only add their are legitimate times, even when you try your best, you see a hand pulling on the facemask but you can not get a number. If you tell the coaches it was during the tackle and you could not get the number, most coaches would understand that the smart ones will anyway.
When the not so smart ones choose to distinguish themselves with great lines such as: "You shouldn't throw a flag if you don't have a number!" I stop the game and advise the head coach if I hear that line once more a UNS will be handed to him if I can't determine who the little weasel is shouting it from behind the water girl.

[AlUpstateNY]

This drifted a little of topic.
Getting back to the original question I would only add their are legitimate times, even when you try your best, you see a hand pulling on the facemask but you can not get a number. If you tell the coaches it was during the tackle and you could not get the number, most coaches would understand that the smart ones will anyway.
When the not so smart ones choose to distinguish themselves with great lines such as: "You shouldn't throw a flag if you don't have a number!" I stop the game and advise the head coach if I hear that line once more a UNS will be handed to him if I can't determine who the little weasel is shouting it from behind the water girl.

Another example that, "When you BUTT/U/ME, you make an BUTT out of both you and me".

[KWH]