Scrimmage Kick Blocked/Deflected at LOS

[Bulldog75]

I'm new and still learning, and had some questions.

6.3.1.a is pretty straight forward.  If the kick does not cross the neutral zone, the ball is live and can be recovered and advanced by anyone.  It doesn't matter why the kick fails to cross the neutral zone (bad kick, wind, blocked), it just matters that it didn't cross.  Also, if Team A recovers the ball they can attempt a forward pass or a punt, correct?


6.3.1.b is mostly clear to me.  If Team B blocks the kick within 3 yards of the neutral zone, we treat it like they were in or behind the neutral zone.  But does it matter where the ball goes after it is blocked there? Suppose the ball is snapped at the A-20, punted, and then blocked at the A-22.  If the ball bounces back to the A-20 or behind, then clearly 6.1.3.a is in play. 

If the ball bounces straight up and is recovered by A75 at the A-22, can he advance it? 

What if the ball is deflected by Team B at the A-22, but it continues downfield to the A-35?  Is 6.3.1.a still in play?  Or do we transition to 6.3.3 with a kick beyond the neutral zone touched by a receiving team player?  If Team A recovers the ball at the A-35, can they advance it?  Or is it dead and Team A gets the ball at that spot?  Or is it dead and Team B gets the ball at that spot?


New scenario: the kick strikes a Team A lineman behind the neutral zone.  If the ball bounces back and stays behind the neutral zone, then naturally it's live and anyone can recover and advance it.  But what if it glances off the Team A lineman and continues downfield?  I don't see additional rules for that, so do we disregard the contact and continue with the kick play as if it got away cleanly?  I don't think illegal touching would apply.

[dammitbobby]

But does it matter where the ball goes after it is blocked there? Suppose the ball is snapped at the A-20, punted, and then blocked at the A-22.  If the ball bounces back to the A-20 or behind, then clearly 6.1.3.a is in play. 

If the ball bounces straight up and is recovered by A75 at the A-22, can he advance it? 

No, he cannot advance it.  The intent of 6-3-1-a is to not allow A to get cheap turnovers from a good play (blocking the kick) or a poor play from their kicker.  Without 6-3-1-a, it would just a live ball, touched by B, and anyone could recover.  His recovery spot is the spot of illegal touching.

What if the ball is deflected by Team B at the A-22, but it continues downfield to the A-35?  Is 6.3.1.a still in play?  Or do we transition to 6.3.3 with a kick beyond the neutral zone touched by a receiving team player?  If Team A recovers the ball at the A-35, can they advance it?  Or is it dead and Team A gets the ball at that spot?  Or is it dead and Team B gets the ball at that spot?

Yes, for the purposes of establishing who has touched the ball; i.e., just because the kick is blocked, and goes 7-10 yards downfield, does not mean that A now has the right to recover and retain possession of the ball.  They may recover it, sure, but it will belong to B at that point of illegal touching.

New scenario: the kick strikes a Team A lineman behind the neutral zone.  If the ball bounces back and stays behind the neutral zone, then naturally it's live and anyone can recover and advance it.  But what if it glances off the Team A lineman and continues downfield?  I don't see additional rules for that, so do we disregard the contact and continue with the kick play as if it got away cleanly?  I don't think illegal touching would apply.

I don't see anything in 6-3 that says it's not illegal touching. Just because it's not intentional doesn't negate it from being illegal touching. (6-3-4-a only addresses kicks that have crossed the NZ.)  As others have pointed out, by rule this is not considered illegal touching as it occurs behind the NZ

I'm sure I may have missed something but I think this is pretty correct.  (Edited to reflect that I am an idiot)

[Bulldog75]

So in the scenarios where Team B blocks the ball within 3 yards of the neutral zone but the ball continues/stays beyond the neutral zone, you're disregarding the touch by Team B and not allowing Team A to possess the ball?  That makes sense because 6-3-1-b says the blocking is considered to have occurred behind the neutral zone and 6-3-3 says all become eligible when the kick that HAS crossed the neutral zone touches a receiving team player.  I guess the same would be true if a defender in the backfield gets a partial block but the ball continues downfield. 


And in the scenario where the ball strikes a Team A player at the neutral zone, Team B would have the option to take possession at the spot of touching?

[FWREF]

I'm new and still learning, and had some questions.

6.3.1.a is pretty straight forward.  If the kick does not cross the neutral zone, the ball is live and can be recovered and advanced by anyone.  It doesn't matter why the kick fails to cross the neutral zone (bad kick, wind, blocked), it just matters that it didn't cross.  Also, if Team A recovers the ball they can attempt a forward pass or a punt, correct?


6.3.1.b is mostly clear to me.  If Team B blocks the kick within 3 yards of the neutral zone, we treat it like they were in or behind the neutral zone.  But does it matter where the ball goes after it is blocked there? Suppose the ball is snapped at the A-20, punted, and then blocked at the A-22.  If the ball bounces back to the A-20 or behind, then clearly 6.1.3.a is in play. 

If the ball bounces straight up and is recovered by A75 at the A-22, can he advance it? 

What if the ball is deflected by Team B at the A-22, but it continues downfield to the A-35?  Is 6.3.1.a still in play?  Or do we transition to 6.3.3 with a kick beyond the neutral zone touched by a receiving team player?  If Team A recovers the ball at the A-35, can they advance it?  Or is it dead and Team A gets the ball at that spot?  Or is it dead and Team B gets the ball at that spot?


New scenario: the kick strikes a Team A lineman behind the neutral zone.  If the ball bounces back and stays behind the neutral zone, then naturally it's live and anyone can recover and advance it.  But what if it glances off the Team A lineman and continues downfield?  I don't see additional rules for that, so do we disregard the contact and continue with the kick play as if it got away cleanly?  I don't think illegal touching would apply.

Your new scenario above is not illegal touching. The ball being touched behind the LOS by team A is legal. The kick will have crossed the NZ when it touches the ground, a player or an official beyond the NZ. You are correct disregard the contact and the ball is in play as normal.

[ElvisLives]

Bulldog, a ‘block’ of a kick attempt (as defined) up to three yards beyond the NZ is simply ignored. As though it didn’t happen. Whether or not illegal touching (by A) comes into play depends on where the ball lands on the ground, or is thereafter touched by any player (or an official). Until the kicked ball touches something beyond the NZ, then illegal touching does not apply. If the kicked ball fails to cross the NZ - for any reason - the ball is alive and in play, and both teams may touch, catch, or recover the ball, and advance it (if the ball doesn’t otherwise become dead).
Some folks will tell you that “it isn’t a kick until it crosses the NZ, it is just like a fumble.” That is totally false. If that were true, then we couldn’t have running into/roughing the kicker if the kick fails to cross the NZ, and we know that isn’t true. Also, if the kicked ball goes OB without crossing the NZ, the ball belongs to Team B, regardless of the down number at the snap. That would not be true for a fumble.
Keep in mind that touching (deliberate or incidental) of the kick in/behind the NZ by Team A means that, by rule, a field goal attempt can not score, even if the ball manages to fly over the crossbar and between the uprights of B’s goal. So, if a low FG attempt kick strikes a Team A player’s helmet, shoulder, etc., it can’t score.

Once the kicked ball touches something beyond the NZ, then Team A may not touch the ball until it is touched by Team B, even if the ball rebounds behind the NZ. That is illegal touching. Once Team B touches the ball beyond the NZ (or after it has otherwise crossed the NZ), Team A may legally catch/recover the kicked ball, but they may NOT advance it after catching/recovering it.

I wish I could make it simpler, but is just isn’t simple.