Author Topic: 2024 CFO Quiz 2  (Read 7973 times)

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Offline ElvisLives

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2024 CFO Quiz 2
« on: May 16, 2024, 11:16:22 PM »
OK, this one challenged me. See if I screwed up.
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1. 2/10 @ B-25. Late in the 4th quarter with 2:03 remaining at the snap, A12 drops back to pass, scrambles and runs to the B-18 where he is tackled inbounds with 1:55 remaining on the clock. During the play, B55’s helmet came completely off (not as a direct result of a foul). Play clock?
RULING:
A, 3/3, B-18, snap (25).
The game clock was stopped to administer the 2-minute time out. B55 may NOT participate in the next down, unless Team B takes a charged team time out. The play clock is set to 25 seconds, and will start on the referee’s signal. The game clock will next start on the snap. There is no option for a 10-second subtraction.


2. Free Kick @ A-35. The kickoff is high and deep, and deep receiver B21 gives the “T signal” as the kick is in flight. B21 catches the kick right at the goal line and returns the kick back to the B-35.
RULING:
B, 1/10, B-35, snap (25).
As described, the signal given was neither a valid fair catch signal, nor an invalid fair catch signal, because it did not involve a waving motion. B21’s catch and advance is legal.


3. 1/10 @ A-25. Early in the 4th quarter, back A21 takes a handoff and runs for a 15-yard gain and is down inbounds. During the play, A88 is guilty of holding at the A-30, and B54’s helmet comes completely off (not as a direct result of a foul). Play clock?
RULING:
A, 1/15, A-20, ready (25).
The OH penalty is enforced at the spot of the foul, taking the ball to the A-20, and 1st down will be repeated. B54 may NOT participate in the next down, unless Team B takes a charged team time out. The play clock is set to 25 seconds, and both clocks will start on the referee’s signal. If team B takes a time out, the game clock will start on the snap.


4. 3/2 @ B-15. After the Two-Minute Timeout in the second quarter, A45 fumbles after gaining three yards. The officials cannot determine who has recovered the fumble, so the Line Judge signals the clock to stop while the ball is being located. A45 is found to be in possession of the ball at the B-14 and has not made the line to gain. Play clock?
RULING:
A, 4/1, B-14, ready (40 and running).
The Play Clock operator should start the 40-second play clock when the Line Judge signals for the game clock to stop (or, upon a dead-ball signal by any official). The game clock should be restarted immediately by the Referee when Team A possession is determined, and the officials move to spot the ball at the succeeding spot. If the play clock reaches 25 seconds before the ball can be spotted, the Referee should stop both clocks, signal for the play clock to be set to 25 seconds, and both clocks started on his signal.


5.    3/2 @ B-15. After the Two-Minute Timeout in the second quarter, A45 fumbles after gaining three yards. The officials cannot determine who has recovered the fumble, so the Line Judge signals the clock to stop while the ball is being located. A45 is found to be in possession of the ball at the B-12 and has made the line to gain. Play clock?
RULING:
A, 1/10, B-12
The Play Clock operator should start the 40-second play clock when the Line Judge signals for the game clock to stop (or, upon a dead-ball signal by any official). The game clock should be restarted by the Referee when the ball is spotted and ready for play. If the play clock reaches 25 seconds before the ball can be spotted, the Referee should stop both clocks, signal for the play clock to be set to 25 seconds, and both clocks started on his signal.


6. 3/10 @ B-40. Early in the 2nd quarter, Team A has all 3 timeouts remaining. A12 throws to A88 but the pass is ruled incomplete. The Team A head coach calls timeout to challenge the ruling on the field of an incomplete pass. Replay overturns the ruling on the field to a catch at the B-31. After the ball is ready at the B-31, Team A breaks the huddle late in the play clock, and the Team A head coach attempts to call a timeout just before the play clock displays zero.
RULING:
A, 4/6, B-36, snap (25).
Since Team A’s replay challenge overturned the ruling on the field, Team A was NOT charged a team timeout. Therefore, Team A may now be granted a charged team time out. This counts as a T/O for the purposes of consecutive times out, and Team A is not granted a time out. They get a delay of game foul.


7. 3/10 @ A-25. After the Two-Minute Timeout in the fourth quarter and the clock running with 1:25 left in the game, Team B is behind by 3 points and has no timeouts remaining. To conserve time, B77 crosses the neutral zone and touches a Team A player.
RULING:
A, 3/5, A-30, 1:15 (4), ready (25).
The 5-yard penalty for B77’s dead-ball DOF foul takes the ball to the A-30, and carries a 10-second subtraction. By rule, the game clock is started on the referee’s signal.


8. 3/10 @ B-30. After the Two-Minute Timeout in the second quarter and the clock running, Team A has no timeouts remaining. Ball carrier A21 sweeps around right end and throws a backward pass out of bounds to conserve time from the B-25 and the ball goes out of bounds at the B-27. The clock reads 0:15 when the ball lands out of bounds.
RULING:
A, 4/10, B-30, 0:05 (4), ready (no play clock).
The 5-yard penalty from the spot of the pass for the illegal pass to conserve time also carries loss of down. Inside 2-minutes in the 2nd/4th periods, the penalty also allows Team B to accept a 10-second subtraction from the game clock, which also requires the game clock to start on the referee’s signal. With less than 25 seconds on the game clock, there is no play clock.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 03:09:40 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline Maineac

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2024, 07:23:49 AM »
Question 1, can B55 participate on the next play? I was under the impression the 2MTO can’t be used for this, that B would need to buy him back in with their own TO.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2024, 09:48:07 AM »
Question 1, can B55 participate on the next play? I was under the impression the 2MTO can’t be used for this, that B would need to buy him back in with their own TO.

I believe you are correct. I crossed my rules, I think. I was thinking about there being another reason that the clock stopped - but that only applies to the 1–second subtraction, or starting the clock on the ready under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th periods. So, in this case, yes, B55 may not participate in the next down, unless Team B ‘buys’ him back into the game with a a charged team time out. Can they do that when the clock is stopped for the 2MTO? I honestly don’t know. It would not be consecutive charged team times out, so I don’t know why not, other than that will be at least 3 1/2 minutes worth of game interruption. TV will like the extra time for commercials, but they won’t like the additional real time that it will take. They can’t have their cake and eat it too.
I will change my answer, and wait to see what the big boys say.

Offline Maineac

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2024, 10:40:02 AM »
So, in this case, yes, B55 may not participate in the next down, unless Team B ‘buys’ him back into the game with a a charged team time out. Can they do that when the clock is stopped for the 2MTO?
I believe they can, however I am not 💯 on this yet. Still figuring it out until the books come out.

Offline Maineac

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2024, 11:49:10 AM »
Question 3, wouldn’t B54 have to leave the game for the next down, as his helmet came off not as the direct result of a foul by the opponent (unless Team B takes a timeout)?

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2024, 01:13:35 PM »
Question 3, wouldn’t B54 have to leave the game for the next down, as his helmet came off not as the direct result of a foul by the opponent (unless Team B takes a timeout)?

Yes. Same issue. I was thinking about the fact that the game clock was stopped for another reason beside the helmet off, but that doesn’t affect his ability to participate in the next down - only that there would be no opportunity for a 10SS if the game clock was under 2 minutes in the 2nd/4th period, which is not at all the case, here. I will make that correction, as well.
Thanks.

Offline Maineac

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2024, 01:24:27 PM »
Thanks for posting. Good to look at your reasoning.

Offline DJW201

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2024, 02:51:13 PM »
On Question 1: At the clinic last weekend, Shaw confirmed that the two-minute time-out will not buy a player back into the game; his team still needs to take a time-out.

On Question 3, the play clock is set to 40 per 2023 Bulletin No. 1.

On Question 6, no time-out is granted per 2023 Bulletin No. 1 in 2023, although it also is not charged.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2024, 08:11:11 PM »
On Question 1: At the clinic last weekend, Shaw confirmed that the two-minute time-out will not buy a player back into the game; his team still needs to take a time-out.

On Question 3, the play clock is set to 40 per 2023 Bulletin No. 1.

On Question 6, no time-out is granted per 2023 Bulletin No. 1 in 2023, although it also is not charged.

Thanks for reminding me/us about the bulletin. I should note that in my rule book (at least I should have for 2023). Perhaps the rule, itself, will be edited to reflect this for 2024, to state that consecutive requests for a timeout will not be granted. A note like, "Note: Following a timeout requested for a replay challenge that overturns the call, the timeout is not charged to the team, but it counts as a requested timeout for the purposes of rule 3-3-4." Or something like that.  :)

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2024, 03:06:15 PM »
The answers have been published.

#3, they rule that the play clock should be 40 seconds, because of the defensive 'helmet off.' I debated that in my mind, and went with 25. I'm OK with that, if they would put the priority of such events in the rules. Stopping the clock for a penalty completion is listed in the same section as the helmet off, but there is nothing that says the helmet off supersedes the penalty completion. If that's what they want, OK. Just put it in the rules, so we aren't having to go by interpretations (ARs or quiz rulings).

#6, OK, so a successful challenge returns the T/O to the team, but it counts as T/O for the purpose of consecutive times out, so Team A isn't granted their request, and get a delay foul. Just for TV. Kinda sucks. Again, put this in the rule.


 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 06:02:04 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline peterparsons

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2024, 02:00:33 AM »
Based on the wording of 3-3-9-b in 2023, I agreed with you on a 25s clock for #3. The wording in 3-3-9-b talks about the helmet off being the only reason for stopping the clock (other than an injury) and since there's a flag down in the play, the helmet off is definitely not the only reason the clock was stopped, so the rest of 3-3-9-b should disregarded.

The 2023 bulletin and this answer directly contradict what the 2023 rules say to do in this situation. I agree with you, if that's what they want, re-word the rule(s) to say so. If they want helmet off and injuries to supercede any other play clock rules, it's not hard to make that clear.

Offline ljudge

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2024, 09:02:22 AM »
On Question 1: At the clinic last weekend, Shaw confirmed that the two-minute time-out will not buy a player back into the game; his team still needs to take a time-out.


Slight twist (injury vs. helmet).  There's something I humbly admit I never thought about when it comes to injuries.  We know a T/O cannot buy an injured player back in the game, but even if this happened on the last play of the 2Q, that player still cannot participate at the start of the 3Q.  Seems common sense to me to allow it but someone brought up it's nowhere in the rule code that the player is allowed to return for at least 1 play even after halftime intermission (unlike Fed).

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2024, 09:23:05 AM »
That's super interesting and a great point I hadn't ever considered either... while the possibility is remote, it would have a lot more implications for Texas HS ball where it's often common to see 2- or 3-way players.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 2024 CFO Quiz 2
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2024, 10:00:45 AM »
Slight twist (injury vs. helmet).  There's something I humbly admit I never thought about when it comes to injuries.  We know a T/O cannot buy an injured player back in the game, but even if this happened on the last play of the 2Q, that player still cannot participate at the start of the 3Q.  Seems common sense to me to allow it but someone brought up it's nowhere in the rule code that the player is allowed to return for at least 1 play even after halftime intermission (unlike Fed).

You may be missing the point of not allowing them to return for the next down. In addition to ensuring the player gets some level of medical attention (if it is really needed), that rule is to mitigate the possibility of a  team using a fake injury to get the clock stopped, giving that team the chance to rest, or get different personnel into the game, or have time to make a better play call, or get their field goal team on the field. That got really bad a few years ago, and that rule alone didn’t stop the fake injury epidemic. So the 10-second subtraction was instituted. That has helped tremendously, but as long as there are 11 seconds or more remaining in the period, teams can still use a fake injury to stop the clock, to their advantage. Have you ever noticed that the fake injuries never happen to star ‘skill’ players? Nope. Always a lineman, or second level player of some kind. Granted, keeping a player from participating in the opening kickoff of the 3rd period seems a bit pointless. But, that’s what we have.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2024, 01:28:16 PM by ElvisLives »