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[ElvisLives]

You know, when they changed the rule to include a “striding” ball carrier with regard to the ball being dead where it crosses the sideline when it becomes dead in possession OB, then when is it dead where it was between the goal lines when the ball becomes dead OB? What else is there besides airborne or striding?

[Legacy Zebra]

When the ball comes is declared out of bounds while in possession of a player who is still touching the ground in bounds. This actually happened in a game within the last few years and I seem to remember replay being involved. A player was being tackled near the sideline and was reaching for the line to gain. Because the player was in the process of being tackled, his foot was dragging the ground inbounds when his elbow (I think) hit the ground out of bounds. The ball was short of the line to gain when it crossed the sideline, but beyond the line to gain when it became dead. If I remember correctly, the on-field official spotted the ball where it crossed. Replay then stepped in and moved the ball beyond the line to gain since he was not an airborne ball carrier.

[Legacy Zebra]

Found the play:https://youtu.be/bvL77WHUhvY?t=7560

2:06:00 if the timestamp doesn't load correctly.

I had a couple of the details wrong, but the play still illustrates the concept. The ball carrier's left hand was still in contact with the ground when the ball, in his right hand, crossed the sideline and then was declared dead out of bounds.

[bossman72]

Found the play:https://youtu.be/bvL77WHUhvY?t=7560

2:06:00 if the timestamp doesn't load correctly.

I had a couple of the details wrong, but the play still illustrates the concept. The ball carrier's left hand was still in contact with the ground when the ball, in his right hand, crossed the sideline and then was declared dead out of bounds.

I actually think that was a hell of a spot by the LJ and replay did not get that right.  I was shocked watching it live when they overturned it.

I think the spirit of the rule is that when the runner/ball is crossing the plane of the sideline, we are to spot it where it crosses the plane of the sideline.

Scenarios where the ball did not cross the sideline but a part of the runner's body touches the sideline... that's where we spot the ball exactly where it is when the runner went OOB.

The rule is poorly written.

[ElvisLives]

I actually think that was a hell of a spot by the LJ and replay did not get that right.  I was shocked watching it live when they overturned it.

I think the spirit of the rule is that when the runner/ball is crossing the plane of the sideline, we are to spot it where it crosses the plane of the sideline.

Scenarios where the ball did not cross the sideline but a part of the runner's body touches the sideline... that's where we spot the ball exactly where it is when the runner went OOB.

The rule is poorly written.

I'm with you, Bossman, and that is based on the rule, which I actually think is well written. "Exception: When the ball carrier is airborne as 'they' (he) crosses the sideline (including a striding runner (should be "ball carrier")), forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline."

In the video example, the BC is both voluntarily diving AND was driven into the air by the defender, so he is an AIRBORNE player, no matter how you look at it. During this process, the BC had the ball tucked against his body as he leaned and was falling forward and out of bounds. With reasonable certainty, the ball crossed the sideline before it reached the LTG (which appears to be 'exactly' the B-7, which is another discussion). The BC continues to fall forward over the OB area, eventually landing on the ground OB with the ball, itself, at that moment, beyond the LTG, with no part of his body other than hand or foot touching the ground inbounds. As an airborne BC, by rule, he gets progress to the point where the ball crossed the sideline while he was 'flying' out of bounds. Although I think the ball may have been inches closer to the LTG than the L marked it, I believe we can all agree that is was short of the LTG, and a really good spot.
IMHO, I believe the RO made an error. Forget the 2019 editorial change regarding a striding BC. He wasn't striding. He was quite literally off his feet flying OB.

Regarding the rule language, I believe it is just fine. But, all of the AR's seem to involve the goal line. They need an AR for these situations that do not involve the goal line, just to offer full clarity.

[Legacy Zebra]

If you want to argue spirit of the rule, you could have that discussion. But we have a definition for airborne player and this player doesn’t meet it. “ An airborne player is a player not in contact with the ground…”. If he’s touching the ground, he’s not airborne. In this play, his hand is touching the ground. While it’s not what we typically think of when we talk about a ball carrier touching the ground inbounds, he is still touching the ground.

[ElvisLives]

If you want to argue spirit of the rule, you could have that discussion. But we have a definition for airborne player and this player doesn’t meet it. “ An airborne player is a player not in contact with the ground…”. If he’s touching the ground, he’s not airborne. In this play, his hand is touching the ground. While it’s not what we typically think of when we talk about a ball carrier touching the ground inbounds, he is still touching the ground.

Yeah, by strict - really strict - reading of the definition, he isn’t airborne, because of the left hand. Believe me, I am the king of preaching strict reading. But, in this case, I have a feeling that, if pressed on the issue, Shaw would say, “Well, an airborne player is one that is no longer moving with normal ‘steps’, has at least one foot off the ground, and is clearly about to fall to the ground.” But, I don’t have access to him, so I won’t be able to get him to verify and/or adjust the definition. So, why is a BC ‘striding’ out of bounds the same as a true airborne BC? Because of that, I believe the ball is dead where it crosses the sideline.
I will gladly admit error, if someone can get an authoritative answer contrary to my thinking.

[bossman72]

Yeah, by strict - really strict - reading of the definition, he isn’t airborne, because of the left hand. Believe me, I am the king of preaching strict reading. But, in this case, I have a feeling that, if pressed on the issue, Shaw would say, “Well, an airborne player is one that is no longer moving with normal ‘steps’, has at least one foot off the ground, and is clearly about to fall to the ground.” But, I don’t have access to him, so I won’t be able to get him to verify and/or adjust the definition. So, why is a BC ‘striding’ out of bounds the same as a true airborne BC? Because of that, I believe the ball is dead where it crosses the sideline.
I will gladly admit error, if someone can get an authoritative answer contrary to my thinking.

I think the rule could be written better to reflect how we officiate it.  There really should not be a distinction between airborne and not airborne when crossing the sideline.  If the ball ends up out of bounds, we always spot it where it crosses the sideline prior to the ball becoming dead.  If the ball became dead prior to it crossing the sideline, we spot it where it is.

[Kalle]

If the ball ends up out of bounds, we always spot it where it crosses the sideline prior to the ball becoming dead.

Playing devil's advocate a bit. Do we really?

1/10 A-20. RB A33 takes a handoff and runs towards the right sideline with the ball to his right. He does a 90-degree turn just before the sideline at A-23 and runs just inbounds with the ball being entirely over the sideline. B88 pushes him out of bounds at A-35. Where do we spot the ball? I hope nobody says "A-23, this is where the ball last crossed the sideline."

[ilyazhito]

You know, when they changed the rule to include a “striding” ball carrier with regard to the ball being dead where it crosses the sideline when it becomes dead in possession OB, then when is it dead where it was between the goal lines when the ball becomes dead OB? What else is there besides airborne or striding?

What is the purpose of treating a striding player as if he is airborne?