Author Topic: Gunter/Henrietta  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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Gunter/Henrietta
« on: November 29, 2025, 07:42:35 AM »
Sooo.

Assuming that everyone has seen the clip from the Gunter/Henrietta game.

Looks like a lot went wrong in this game. But, it never would have occurred to me to throw a shoe as a flag. Or, to call a player a crybaby and little b!t$h. The lack of dead ball officiating is completely perplexing to me.

What can we as officials learn from this, and what can we do to repair the reputational harm done to officiating?

Offline BlindZebra13

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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2025, 08:19:09 AM »
Wow.  Just wow.

I’ve had games where I got really frustrated with the conduct of the players.  My usual response is to gather both teams and let them know that if they don’t get back to playing football, the JVs will finish the game.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2025, 08:34:51 AM »
Pretty sure at this point, one of the JVs was already in. Game was already well off the rails by then.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2025, 05:31:24 PM »
Here's the play.. a singular play, yes, but things had to have been out of control long before this.

https://youtu.be/P-QWovliPFs?feature=shared
« Last Edit: November 29, 2025, 07:54:32 PM by dammitbobby »

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2025, 06:34:38 PM »
The video does answer one question. The R throws a flag as he starts to move toward the two opponents toward the top of the screen, then he throws his hat for an apparent second foul, the he removes and throws his shoe for…
From a mechanics perspective, the flag is, of course, appropriate. The hat is acceptable, but, I would use my bean bag before I used my hat. After that, I’d just point at a player and signal UNS (or UNR). If a team already has two UNS/UNR fouls in the same general time frame, then they all get heaped together into a single 15-yard distance penalty, although any player that gets two UNSs will get DQd. So, if all of that was on one player, there was no point in throwing anything else after the hat. Just keep count of the number, and report that to the governing body.
I wish we had audio on the player(s) involved. Very interested to know what they were saying. Not excusing the R, but, I have seen how players have gotten totally out of control in the past decade+, with no significant disciplinary action, reactive or proactive, from the UIL. I am not going to cast stones at someone when I know how aggravating the players and coaches can be, as well as how frustrating the UIL can be by their lack of action and concern.

Offline bctgp

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2025, 06:52:38 PM »
Doesn't TASO Mechanics require us to have two penalty flags?

Offline TxBJ

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2025, 06:54:16 PM »
Yes.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2025, 07:10:14 PM »
Doesn't TASO Mechanics require us to have two penalty flags?

It does, as of 2025. Hard for some old-school folks to accept that (first person included) but it would have helped in this case.

Offline blindref757

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2025, 07:25:35 PM »
This is what you get when one coach convinces another to use an “outside” chapter.  If you get the coaches out of the selection process…you wouldn’t have had all of the things that led up to this I was at this game and Gunter was absolutely the better team and would win this game 10/10 times with any crew.  But Henrietta was frustrated by them from the first play of the game and it only went downhill from there.  A few early flags for obvious UC and cock fighting would have gone a long way.

Edit by EtRef
« Last Edit: December 13, 2025, 12:57:16 PM by Etref »

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2025, 07:53:30 PM »
This is what you get when one coach convinces another to use an “outside” chapter.  If you get the coaches out of the selection process…you wouldn’t have had all of the things that led up to this mele.  The crew was worried about making Gunter happy so that they’d be considered for a future game.  I was at this game and Gunter was absolutely the better team and would win this game 10/10 times with any crew.  But Henrietta was frustrated by them from the first play of the game and it only went downhill from there.  A few early flags for obvious UC and cock fighting would have gone a long way.

Easy solution (that will never materialize) - teams can't use the same chapter twice in a row, past the second round (Houston is so massive, this would be a logistical nightmare otherwise).

Coach still get their precious 'picks' - but the pool of available chapters/officials to pick from is just made a little bit smaller.

Offline Reffan13

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2025, 01:40:14 AM »
From the spreadsheet it looks like Tyler chapter had the game.

Offline Bulldog75

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2025, 12:02:42 PM »
I saw where the state TASO board is looking into it.  Do they normally release an official response?

Offline Snapper

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2025, 12:28:32 PM »
I saw where the state TASO board is looking into it.  Do they normally release an official response?

https://taso.org/news/tao-statement-regarding-conduct-of-a-football-member/

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2025, 12:29:27 PM »
They put out a statement saying they are investigating the incident, but I am pretty certain they will not ever release any other information about it.

I think the only way to get more detailed information would be a FOIA or public records request to UIL. (not sure if FOIA applies to state entities?)

Offline slo8140

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2025, 02:24:29 PM »
This is what you get when one coach convinces another to use an “outside” chapter.  If you get the coaches out of the selection process…you wouldn’t have had all of the things that led up to this mele.  The crew was worried about making Gunter happy so that they’d be considered for a future game.  I was at this game and Gunter was absolutely the better team and would win this game 10/10 times with any crew.  But Henrietta was frustrated by them from the first play of the game and it only went downhill from there.  A few early flags for obvious UC and cock fighting would have gone a long way.

What if the school that was causing the issues was the one that requested the crew....Both have to agree, but everyone assumes Gunter was the one that requested the crew and Henrietta went along with it.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2025, 03:43:51 PM »
I have heard, but have not confirmed, that the crew working that game, was used by Gunter the week before. They definitely had the same chapter the previous week.

Offline slo8140

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2025, 07:12:38 PM »
I have heard, but have not confirmed, that the crew working that game, was used by Gunter the week before. They definitely had the same chapter the previous week.

What you heard was wrong. Like a lot of schools, Gunter likes a particular chapter and based on geography and matchups uses that chapter frequently. Typically never gets the same crew twice in the playoffs. But conspiracy theorists abound everywhere.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2025, 07:18:11 AM »
What you heard was wrong. Like a lot of schools, Gunter likes a particular chapter and based on geography and matchups uses that chapter frequently. Typically never gets the same crew twice in the playoffs. But conspiracy theorists abound everywhere.

Good to know.  That said, it's certainly a possibility for that to occur, with coaches picking. We all know coaches have favorite chapters, and favorite crews. If your chapter is working this week, look and see how many are board assigned vs coaches picks.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2025, 08:51:35 AM »
That might be the next piece to add to the spreadsheet where available; CP vs AC.  I know in Dallas we track that information.

Offline slo8140

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2025, 11:56:26 AM »
For our chapter about 95% are coach pick. When they are assigned, they have to go through the board for a vote. I would say our crews typically work that are better. It does not really have anything to do with being on the board. There are times where the board members are on the better crews.

That makes sense. If you are willing to put in the time to be a better official, you are also probably willing to spend the time to invest in the chapter and be part of the chapter leadership.

I think many people in officiating organizations see working playoff games as a right. It is not. It is a privilege. It should not be based on longevity or board status. It should be based on who is qualified to go and represent the chapter well and officiate a fair game. If that means it is a board member, so be it.

When people ask me how they can get more playoff games I ask them what have they done to get better? Be good enough that the chapter can't afford for you not to be on the field.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2025, 12:17:14 PM »
For our chapter about 95% are coach pick.

When people ask me how they can get more playoff games I ask them what have they done to get better? Be good enough that the chapter can't afford for you not to be on the field.

What you just said though is the conundrum: 95% coaches pick, yet all we're telling people is to simply work harder. I can say with near certainty that coaches picks aren't all coming from who they think are the best officials in the chapters - it's who they 'know' and who they have worked with, that didn't HACK them off. Because no coach is going to recommend to another coach a crew that made a tough - yet correct - call against them.

There's another answer for how to get more playoff games, but it's one that we refuse to acknowledge. Yet we all know it happens, with regularity.

Offline slo8140

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Re: Gunter/Henrietta
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2025, 12:38:38 PM »
I agree that the coach influence can cause a problem.

But in my time as an assigner across multiple sports when coach picks are involved they are typically requesting the crews/officials that do the better job.

Some coaches prefer certain crews/officials over others, but the all generally are requesting or picking guys/crews that are in the upper echelon of the chapter.

My goal is always to expose coaches to new and different crews/officials that I think would do a good job in their contest. I think this generally raises the level of the ability in a chapter.

For the most part chapters are very strong at the top and very weak at the bottom. I think it is the strength/ability of the middle tier that defines a chapter. The closer the middle tier is to the upper echelon the deeper the chapter. A deep chapter means more officials/crews are capable of working and doing a good job across more games at more levels.

We all see games that are officiated poorly. We see officials have bad games. Teams are the same way.

If your goal is to improve you will get noticed. The future of officiating and high sports depends on it.