Rule about distance the holder has to be from snapper on the try

[higham85]

Is there a rule that the holder has to be 7 or more yards back from ball on a field goal or try? I see that for scrimmage kick formation it says holder must be 7 yards back.  If you move closer is it still legal but you loser your protections in scrimmage kick formation? Any clarification on this would be appreciated. Thank you.

[bama_stripes]

Legal, but not a SKF.  No snapper protection, and no numbering exception.  If it’s close, give K the benefit of the doubt.

[Ralph Damren]

When we rewrote the definition of a scrimmage kick back in 2009 (2-14-2)  we felt the need to eliminate any trick plays to circumvent the then current rule. The yardage quoted of : 7 yards-holder, 3 yards behind the holder for kicker and 10 yards -punter; were merely estimates...a surveying crew not needed . I'm with 'Bama on this ,s we don't need to be a walking rule waiting to happen  . A potential trick play that I've had proposed in pre-game sevral times is:

COACH : "Our holder will be in a 'catcher's crouch' and pitch the ball forward to a blocking back...."

ME: "That is legal, BUT it would not qualify as a scrimmage kick formation. You would loose the numbering exception and roughing the holder or snapper protection.  "

COACH : "Ayuh, 'spect not ...this game no how "

[higham85]

Thank you for the responses. Is it written anywhere in the rules that you are allowed to kick from a non scrimmage kick formation? Thanks.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Thank you for the responses. Is it written anywhere in the rules that you are allowed to kick from a non scrimmage kick formation? Thanks.

No, A can kick anytime the ball is behind the NZ and in an A player possession.  There is no rule requirement that A be in a scrimmage kick formation.  A scrimmage kick formation provides protection for snapper, holder, and kicker but is not required to kick the ball.

[ncwingman]

Thank you for the responses. Is it written anywhere in the rules that you are allowed to kick from a non scrimmage kick formation? Thanks.

In a roundabout way - there's nothing that requires a scrimmage kick formation for a legal scrimmage kick, and anything not forbidden is allowed.

Fun fact that you'll probably never see - the kick does not have to be immediately following the snap, and you may have seen the "rugby style" roll out punt where the punter catches the snap, runs sideways a bit, and then kicks the ball. The unlikely event: if he were to drop kick the ball instead, it could score a field goal.

[Ralph Damren]

In my daze of youth, we sometimes would punt on 3rd down ...we then called it a 'quick kick.'. While I haven't seen that much since the turn of the century, the 'rugby style' punt seems to be gaining in popularity. I tell our guys : If the defender is tryin to tackle said kicker as he kicks =  as it is not reasonably certain that a kick will be made (9-4-5a). If he was trying to block the kick but misses and takes out the kicker=  . I blew one several years ago. See if you guys can correct it......

SCENE: 3/15 @ A's 3. A 'quick -kicks' from deep in EZ.

ACT I : Kick is blocked, ball bounce loose in EZ;

ACT II : Kicker kicks loose ball while in EZ;

ACT III : IK sails OOB at A's 8;

ACT IV :  -more flags than 4th of July (BJ didn't throw his).

YOU MAKE THE CALL....

[ncwingman]

There's an illegal kick that took place in K's end zone, so enforcement of that foul would result in a safety.

However, there was also a legal scrimmage kick on the play, which was a legal kick until the ball became dead out of bounds at the K8. If R declines the foul for illegal kicking, they can take the ball at the K8.

I'm guessing this call was illegally kicked (see what I did there?) by either denying R the ability to decline the foul or enforcing it half the distance from the K8 and the next play is 4th down for K.

[BetweenTheLines]

10-4-2 exception is still an option. 1st down @ the 4.

[Ralph Damren]

10-4-2 exception is still an option. 1st down @ the 4.

You nailed it! I just ruled it a safety and moved on. Depending on the game situation, 1st & G for R might have been a better choice.