Author Topic: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)  (Read 9683 times)

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Offline JDM

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Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« on: September 12, 2011, 12:25:06 PM »
I've been advised by a knowledgeable and reputable source that if Team A is at the LOS and SET, the ball can be snapped immediately after the ready without a 1 second delay. Am I misinterpreting this rule thinking the offense has to be set for 1 second prior to the snap even if they are set?

Offline scl-man

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 12:43:25 PM »
7-1 Shift and False Start
ARTICLE 2. a. Shift. After a huddle (Rule 2-14-1) or shift (Rule 2-22-1)
and before the snap, all Team A players must come to an absolute stop and
remain stationary in their positions for at least one full second before the ball
is snapped, without movement of the feet, body, head or arms (A.R. 7-1-2-I).

There is no reference to when this complete stop has to take place.  If A has met the requirement, then they can snap the ball as soon as the ball is ready for play.  The ball is ready for play when either the ball is placed on the ground and the official moves to his position or when the R sounds the whistle.  Therefore, your knowledgeable and reputable source is correct!

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 12:48:13 PM »
The rule is clear that there must be at least 1 second with A "stopped" after the RFP and prior to the snap.

7-1-2-b-5. The offensive team never coming to a one-second stop prior to the snap after the ball is ready for play
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Ump62

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 01:03:52 PM »
Play situation - Team A gains yardage for a first down, clock is stopped with 0:01 remaining in the game. By NV's interpretation, the game is over since Team A can not snap the ball until 0:00??!!

Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 01:44:19 PM »
The rule is clear that there must be at least 1 second with A "stopped" after the RFP and prior to the snap.

7-1-2-b-5. The offensive team never coming to a one-second stop prior to the snap after the ball is ready for play

This is a misread of the intent   The intent is to require a 1 sec stop IF there has been a huddle or a shift.  By definition, it is impossible to have a huddle or a shift UNTIL there has been a RFP.  Therefore, if the ball is snapped simultaneous with the RFP, there is no requirement there have been a 1 second stop (assuing everyone is motionless at the snap)

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 03:29:28 PM »
Not sure that it's a "misread" of the intent.  It is verbatim exactly what the rule says in very simple english as written.  Is there an "after the rulebook" clarification that says otherwise?

The early rules change explanation language, directly from the March 1, 2011 Rogers Redding CFO memo is:

"After the ball is ready for play and before the snap, if the offense never has all eleven players set for a full second, it is a false start (dead-ball foul). If they become set and then make an illegal shift without re-setting before the snap it is a live-ball foul at the snap."

It was further explained that it is intended to make all "quick snaps" fit into the dead-ball false start category and therefore qualify for the 10-second run-off at the end of the half or the game.  Has there been further clarification to the March 1st memo?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 04:20:56 PM »
I don't know which of the multitude of memo/bulletins you are referring to but i am attaching one that addresses this issue directly.

The whole thing is based on a SHIFT.  Again, if there has not been a RFP, it is impossible to have a SHIFT.  Since there is no shift, this new rule does not apply.  And I have as een nothing that said the intent of this change was to prevent "quick snaps".   The intent was to create a new category of false start which, when taken in conjunction with the 10-second subtraction rule, could put an end to teams gaining an advantage by fouling.  They do not foul if they do not SHIFT or HUDDLE after the RFP but instead they just SNAP.

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El Macman

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 04:42:58 PM »
I've been advised by a knowledgeable and reputable source that if Team A is at the LOS and SET, the ball can be snapped immediately after the ready without a 1 second delay. Am I misinterpreting this rule thinking the offense has to be set for 1 second prior to the snap even if they are set?

Your knowledgeable source is 100% correct. The 1-second requirement only applies if the snap follows a huddle or shift (after the ball is ready for play). Should Team A get their players positioned and stationary when the ball is deemed ready for play, then they can snap the ball instantly when the ball is ready for play. The current (and previous) rule language is quite clear on that.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 05:02:07 PM »
I don't know which of the multitude of memo/bulletins you are referring to .....

Can't be much clearer than the rule itself and the additional comments in the attached CFO memo (page 4) ...  Also, there is no reference to a huddle or shift in the new 2011 section of the rules (7-1-2-b-5), and we've been told, and the memo seems to confirm that is intentional. The reference to huddle and shift are included in other rules but not 7-1-2-b-5.  Is there another clarification memo that adds some "only following a huddle or shift" or some similar language here?

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« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 07:08:47 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

El Macman

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 07:24:02 PM »
Can't be much clearer than the rule itself and the additional comments in the attached CFO memo (page 4) ...  Also, there is no reference to a huddle or shift in the new 2011 section of the rules (7-1-2-b-5), and we've been told, and the memo seems to confirm that is intentional. The reference to huddle and shift are included in other rules but not 7-1-2-b-5.  Is there another clarification memo that adds some "only following a huddle or shift" or some similar language here?

Believe what you want. No skin off my nose.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 09:01:27 PM »
Can't be much clearer than the rule itself and the additional comments in the attached CFO memo (page 4) ...  Also, there is no reference to a huddle or shift in the new 2011 section of the rules (7-1-2-b-5), and we've been told, and the memo seems to confirm that is intentional. The reference to huddle and shift are included in other rules but not 7-1-2-b-5.  Is there another clarification memo that adds some "only following a huddle or shift" or some similar language here?

If your theory was correct then there should be a rule that says whenever there is `1 second or less on the clock and the clock is to start on the ready for play, the game is over since there is no way A could legally snap.  Does Mass. have an official interpreter?  If so, you might want to run this by him.  Better yet I know of at least 3 other Mass. officials on this board. I'd be interested to know if that is what they believe as well.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapping the Ball (New Rule 7-1-2-b-5)
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 11:22:05 PM »
Believe what you want. No skin off my nose.

Usual preference is to believe what the rules say.  Has there been a further clarification since the March 1 CFO rules change summary memo that covers this?

Isn't the reason that this change was made for 2011 to enable the quick snap that's made before everyone on A is set to be a DB blow and throw even though it's the snap that makes this a foul?  Are we actually saying that we should be enforcing this section as if it's written without the 1 second requirement and just require A to be set at the RFP?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 11:34:19 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel