10/8 - James Madison vs. U of Maine finish

[Bob M.]

If anyone can get a video of the last play of the game (in OT) and post...it would be appreciated

JMU scored a TD and kicked a one-point try in the first OT series. U of Maine then scored a TD to pull within one point. On the try, they lined up in a "swinging gate" formation with a WR to the right of the snapper, and everyone else over to the left. The snapper was set up with his hand on the ball and his shoulders perpendicular to the line of scrimmage. He snapped the ball from that position across the front of his body to the 'holder,' like you used to do in touch FB games. The holder ran it in for a two-point conversion and the win. Did I miss something, or isn't the snapper required to take the position of a legal lineman, i.e with shoulder approx parallel to the line. If I'm correct, they missed an illegal formation that meant the game.

[NVFOA_Ump]

See this thread from last week:

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8465.0

If he actually snapped the ball with his shoulders 90 deg to the LOS, it should have drawn a flag.

[NVFOA_Ump]

ESPN is showing this play as one of their "Top Ten" for the week.  Take a look and make your own judgment.  I saw it once just now.  Maybe TxMike can capture the video and post it.  I'll admit that I don't have a clue on how to do that.

[mbyron]

It's at the end of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwHDsKb1_YM

[Welpe]

Hmmmm Snap Infraction?

[TXMike]

Illegal formation for sure.  We sure never did anything like that when I was a Black Bear.

[chymechowder]

can't get the link to work   

[NVFOA_Ump]

Here's a screen capture just as the snap goes off.  Snapper never moved from a 90 Deg position and snapped the ball.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[justaLJ]

To stir the pot a little bit, what advantage was gained by the snapper being in the position he was in at the snap?

Whether an ILF could be called or should be called are two separate things.

[Welpe]

To stir the pot a little bit, what advantage was gained by the snapper being in the position he was in at the snap?

Speaking as a former center and long snapper, it's easier to snap the ball from that position then having to turn your shoulders while you snap it.

Isn't there a general college philosophy that trick formations and plays should adhere strictly to the letter of the rule?

[NVFOA_Ump]

This by rule is a formation foul - no advantage/disadvantage is applicable for a formation foul.  Should have been a flag.  If advantage/disadvantage were applicable, one advantage gained by team A would be that team B could expect that team A cannot snap the ball legally with the snapper in that position.

Also, the following statement has been in almost every NCAA Officiating Philosophies document that's been posted here over the last 5-6 years (and probably earlier than that):

Formations during the execution of a trick or unusual play have the highest degree of scrutiny and should be completely legal.

[ret66482]

I agree with NVFOA_Ump's last post of "no advantage/disadvantage is applicable for a formation foul".  I also like the NCAA Officiating Philosophies statement. 

[gfd406]

I am trying to find in the rule book that says this is illegal.... anyone have the rule number?

[Andrew McCarthy]

7-1-4-a-2

2-27-4-a-2

[NVFOA_Ump]

7-1-4-a-2:  All players must be either linemen or backs (Rule 2-27-4).

2-27-4-a-2:  A Team A player is on his scrimmage line when he faces his opponent’s goal line with the line of his shoulders approximately parallel thereto and either (a) he is the snapper (Rule 2-27-8) or (b) his head breaks the plane of the line drawn through the waistline of the snapper.

We've previously discussed the "parallel thereto" to allow +/- 30 deg leeway based on several clarifying rules memos.

[gfd406]

Thanks!