Here's a fun one....

[bbeagle]

Little league playoff game. Chains are right on the sideline. I know they shouldn't be, but they were.

Team A - 4th and 10, late in the 4th quarter of a close game. I'm the R, the running back A1 takes the ball and sweeps to the chain-side of the field. Lots of defense in pursuit, he's still in the backfield, but he's ready to cut and run up the sidelines. There looks to be a good chance he can make 10 yards or a good chunk of those yards....

Because all the players in the area are heading towards the sideline, the chain crew (as they were told to), drop the chains. the box guy drops the box with... uh oh... the bottom end going onto the field....

Of course, wouldn't you know it... A1 trips on the pole and falls to the ground in bounds, with a 3 yard gain. B then lands on him. Nothing unnecessary, just B was running in pursuit, and fell on him and couldn't help it.

This was the visiting team side lines, visiting team running the ball, and the home team chain crew. There seemed to be no intent on the chain crew, it seems they were more 'uh oh! get out of the way. What were we told to do? Oh yeah, drop the chains. Quick!' but you never know. It would be very hard to think it was intentional.

What would you call?

Flag? Penalty? No Penalty? Down/Distance? Which team gets the ball? What about the clock? What do you tell the coaches?

What we did was interesting - I'll give you what we did tomorrow, after I hear what you would do if you were the R.

[TampaSteve]

If the box is touching OOB, we got downed player. (2-29)

[HLinNC]

First of all, I understand the chain on the sideline situation.  While not mechanically sound, in youth ball you are some times using 3 dads begged out of the stands mere moments prior to the kickoff.  Chain crew instruction is done on the fly.

9-1-1 would come into effect for a non-player/person not subject to the rules hindering play.   As R, I would utilize the inadvertant whistle procedure and give A the option of replaying the down or taking the result of the play

Not so sure I would penalize B if you really didn't deem it a foul.  If you decide to enforce a DBPF, that is going to cancel out the IW procedure.  15 yards from the EOR.

Chain crew will be instructed at this point to pull them back.   If you have to delay in order for the HL to do that, then that is what you are stuck with.  Home team/game mgt. will have to live with it.  While HL is doing this, R and another official are explaining to A & B's coach exactly what has just been done.

Clock on the RFP.

[TampaSteve]

Although not in FB rules, another rule, "rub of the green", is coming to mind.

[Curious]

The old "dog on the field: play....

"HL", you're referring to 9-9-1....

While this play does not involve a live ball striking some "unauthorized" person/thing on the field, I would concur that the IW procedure should be invoked.

However, HL, if you're declaring this to be a DBPF, which it doesn't sound like in the OP, the IW procedure is not "trumped".  This would happen only of the foul was "live ball" - technically "during the down" (4-2-3d). 

So give A the choice - then penalize the dead ball foul.

[HLinNC]

B then lands on him. Nothing unnecessary, just B was running in pursuit, and fell on him and couldn't help it.

I was talking about this portion.  He never said if he was calling this a foul or not but the verbiage tends to lead one to think it he might be.

[Curious]

I was talking about this portion.  He never said if he was calling this a foul or not but the verbiage tends to lead one to think it he might be.

I was referring to your comment below.  Just making sure we differentiate between fouls during the down and those after when it comes to the IW procedure

If you decide to enforce a DBPF, that is going to cancel out the IW procedure.  15 yards from the EOR.

[Wettstein]

Only fair option

Allow the offense to have play over and give him time back on the clock if that was an issue or allow him to take the play results.  You cannot "predict" the kid would have gotten more yardage.  For all you know, he may have tripped on the blade of grass the box covered up and allowed him to get 3 yards.

[FBUmp]

1st & 10 for B.

IT happens.

[bbeagle]

Allow the offense to have play over and give him time back on the clock

Yes, exactly what we did.

We called a 'mulligan' on the play. I guess we sort of did the inadvertent whistle rule, but we also added time back to the clock, so it was entirely a 'do over' play. We explained it to both coaches. At first, the home team coach who 'stopped' the visiting team was upset because he thought his defense made the play, until he realized after we talked to him that the player tripped over the box pole.

It's just one of those plays that the rules don't cover.

We didn't penalize the 'late hit' by the defense, because nobody expected a person in full stride would be tripped by a box. It wasn't the same fall as if someone tripped over their own feet. There was no intention to late hit, and there was no way to avoid it.

It 'worked' out for us, the visiting team actually got a first down on that do-over play, but ended up losing on the last play of the game at the 3 yard line 12-6. Both coaches were happy that the game didn't end on the 'trip play'. It would have made the visitors really upset. But, the game ended up being decided on the field, instead of by us, the officials (or the chain crew)

[TampaSteve]

Not being combative here, but how does 2-29 not considered here?  Player touching game equipment that is touching OOB.

[HLinNC]

I understand 2-29 Steve but in this instance the down marker was actually in the field of play and tripped the runner.  This is definitely the act of a non-player hindering play.

[bbeagle]

Not being combative here, but how does 2-29 not considered here?  Player touching game equipment that is touching OOB.

I agree, that 'technically' by rule, we could rule this way.

But it's like any other unforseen circumstance. What would you do if any of the following ever happened? I would not use rule 2-29.

1) Team A catches a pass at the 50, broken coverage. Nobody near him. He will score an apparent touchdown. The field goal post falls and brushes him, and he scores.

2) A player in the back corner of the endzone completes a pass in-bounds for a touchdown. While catching the pass, the corner pilon falls over and touches the top of his foot.

3) Very windy day. During the play, part of the netting behind the goal posts rips off and blows half on the field, half off the field in the back of the endzone. A player steps on the netting in the endzone while catching a pass inbounds.

[TampaSteve]

Man, I donno fellas. 
If the runner didnt trip & gained whatever yardage he was going to gain it's a non-event, right?
Only reason this is being brought up is because he did trip & it affected the play.
But he tripped on something touching OOB.
Am I having a bad day?  What am I missing?  Should I take the day off?

[TampaSteve]

I agree, that 'technically' by rule, we could rule this way.

But it's like any other unforseen circumstance. What would you do if any of the following ever happened? I would not use rule 2-29.

1) Team A catches a pass at the 50, broken coverage. Nobody near him. He will score an apparent touchdown. The field goal post falls and brushes him, and he scores.

2) A player in the back corner of the endzone completes a pass in-bounds for a touchdown. While catching the pass, the corner pilon falls over and touches the top of his foot.

3) Very windy day. During the play, part of the netting behind the goal posts rips off and blows half on the field, half off the field in the back of the endzone. A player steps on the netting in the endzone while catching a pass inbounds.

good points...

[BuckTrump]

However you handled such a thing seemed to have worked out.  I like your solution.  Sounds like neither coach was too upset by it and all worked out for the best as the players decided the outcome and not the officials.

That being said, this begs the question................what would your response had been if the runner had tripped on this post but never went down.  He instead regained his composure and ran for the first down.  What is your call then?  Is it differant? Why?

Just something to think about!

[HLinNC]

Steve, if he brushes the pylon or the goalpost then yes, I agree, it his fault and he's down/OOB. The key to me, at least, is we have a piece of equipment that should not normally be in the field of play hindering play because a non player or someone not subject to the rules caused it to be there.  Absent the act, whether intentional or not, odds are it doesn't occur.

I know most of us loathe using 9-1-1 but combining that with the IW provision creates the most equitable method to deal with the scenario.

I do not believe I would have called it a do over or re-set the clock or started on the snap.  This is too much inequity to B.

I would take the day off, no matter what.

PS: We also don't know for sure from the OP that the box was actually touching OOB.   If the box man tossed, slung, or flipped it out of the way, it could be suspended in air, much like A88.  Now what are we gonna do?

[bbeagle]

That being said, this begs the question................what would your response had been if the runner had tripped on this post but never went down.  He instead regained his composure and ran for the first down.  What is your call then?  Is it different? Why?

Just something to think about!

You're right. I think we would have simply given the 1st down and scolded to the chain crew. But what we did had a lot to do with the result of the play.

For example, fans throwing snowballs at a field goal attempt. If the snowball hits the football, but the ball goes through the uprights - we would ignore this, the field goal is good. If the snowball hits the football causing it to go wide of the posts, I'm calling it a good field goal due to rule 9-1-1. (Crowd control would be a different issue)

[TampaSteve]

I need a beverage.

Oops, nope, I cant yet. have a game with:
team A, of medium-sized classification, being undefeated the past 3yrs. 
VS
out of town team B, of small school classification, being district runner-up this yr.

Will be glad if it's not 70-0 by the half.
Hey, looks like I may get to break out the long sleeves (whatever those are??) too....