Author Topic: Another kicking situation  (Read 5612 times)

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Offline dch

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Another kicking situation
« on: July 27, 2013, 06:12:39 PM »
K1’s kick is muffed by R2.  With the ball grounded at R’s 10 yard line, R2 panics and kicks the ball through his own end zone and out of bounds.   Flag for the illegal kick.

Is the basic spot the succeeding spot per 10-4-5d?
Is the illegal kick treated as a fumble per 2-24-9?
Is R's illegal kick a new force ?  Does it matter ?
Is the result of the play a touchback or a safety?
Is this a PSK situation?
Does it matter if the original play is a scrimmage kick or a free kick?
Where is the basic spot?  Where is the enforcement spot?
What are the penalty enforcement options?
Who thinks up these kinds of things as test questions?  hEaDbAnG
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 09:57:35 PM by dch »

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Another kicking situation
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 07:56:16 PM »
OK, let's take these in a different order, and it will make a little more sense.

1.  When does a kick stop being a kick?  When it is possessed, or becomes dead.
2.  So what was the status of the ball when it was illegally kicked?  Hint: see #1.
3.  2-24-9 is wrong on this point, it's horribly worded rule, and there are a number of us that have asked it to be fixed.  The status of an illegally kicked ball is NOT a fumble, the status is whatever it was before it was illegally kicked.  Now, USUALLY that is a fumble, but not always.  Say a soccer player on the team does a bicycle kick of a pass in flight.  Does his illegal kick make the pass suddenly turn into a fumble?  Of course not, it's still a pass.  On this play, suppose K32 was the one to illegally kick it.  Does that make the status of the ball a fumble?  No.  The staus is whatever it was before it was kicked.
4.  OK, so what we have is a kick that went into the EZ.  What's that?  It'a a touchback.
5.  What is the basic spot on a touchback?  The 20.
6.  What was the status of the ball at the time of the foul?  Loose ball play, which would normally be previous spot enforcement.
7.  What's the exception to #6?  A PSK enforcement!  Does this qualify? Hint: yes!
8.  OK, so we have a PSK foul, which means we will enforce from the end of the kick.  Where did the kick end?  In the end zone, which makes the basic spot the 20.
9.  Was the foul behind the basic spot?  Why, yes it was!  So the enforcement spot becomes the spot of the foul.
10.  Does it matter if it was a free or scrimmage kick?  Hint: the status of the ball was still a kick.
11.  If K declines, R gets the ball 1& 10 at the 20.  Won't happen.  Enforce from the spot, which makes it 1st and 10 from the 5.

If K was about to recover, it might not have been a bad foul by R.  At least they keep the ball.

JKinGA29

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Re: Another kicking situation
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 09:42:06 PM »
10.  Does it matter if it was a free or scrimmage kick?  Hint: the status of the ball was still a kick.

Only difference would be penalty enforcement.  If it's a free kick then there's no PSK so K would have the option of taking the result of the play (touchback - 1/10 for R at R's 20) or 15-yard penalty from the previous spot and rekick.

Offline Bob M.

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Re: Another kicking situation
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 09:25:01 AM »
REPY: Please, Joe, PLEASE come over to the 'dark side!' I tried to get that 2-24-9 changed two years ago, using precisely the rationale and examples as you did. I was about as lucky as an ice cream cone on a hot, sunny Atlanta day. All we'll need is some bonehead awarding a TD when it should be a TB in a big game somewhere and you'll see a change
Bob M.

Offline dch

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Re: Another kicking situation
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 01:05:12 PM »
The big guns came out early on this one.   :bOW
I was hoping for some confusion and disagreement before we got down to it.   :sTiR: