Complete or incomplete when carried

[jgf6]

Such a hot topic for something we may never see in our football life time. However, it is a rule and it must be discussed.

We are getting hung up on the first part of the definition of a catch. "A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball". Now there is the second part which tells us there is another way to make a catch without having to come down inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball. "Or having forward progress of the player in possession stopped while the opponent is carrying the player who is in possession and inbounds". What causes forward progress to stop? The act of the opponent "carrying" the receiver. In case book 4.3.3 Sit. B,(b), on pg. 37, clearly states that this is a catch without mention of maintaining possession after contacting the ground because his forward progress was stopped. Also look at 7.5.4 Sit I on pg. 60, it clears up being carried forward or backward. If we are judging forward progress, we don't wait until the receiver, in this "special" case, goes out of bounds or comes to the ground for that matter, to see if he maintains control to rule on forward progress. We kill the play when his progress has stopped and he is in possession of the ball.

Sounds to me like we have two rulings to make on this play. Is the receiver in possession of the ball and is he being carried? If the answer is yes to both, then we have forward progress stopped and a completed catch at the spot where forward progress was stopped.

My two cents. Thanks

[dch]

JGF6  I like your 2 cents worth a lot.    It helped me reread the rules and the case plays and come to a position that (I think) puts them all in agreement. Here it is.

New for 2013 -- being carried (by an inbounds defender) equals having a foot down in regards to catching the pass.  Therefore, if airborne A86 controls the pass and is then:
    Carried backward --- pass is complete and he is “held so that his forward progress is stopped” ---  play is over.
    Carried forward ---  pass is complete and he is still moving forward and progress is not yet stopped ---  play is alive.
That leads to the following 4 scenarios:
a)   carried backwards and out-of-bounds the pass is complete, blow whistle, forward progress is awarded inbounds, and the clock continues to run.
b)   Carried backwards but not out-of-bounds --  the pass is complete, blow whistle, award forward progress, clock continues to run.
c)   Carried forward but not out-of-bounds – the pass is complete, play continues.
d)   Carried forward and out-of-bounds the pass is complete at the start of the carry and forward progress is awarded where he crosses the sideline.  Clock stops when O.B.

In all of these situations being carried is what makes the pass complete.   Then forward progress and when to blow the whistle are just like any normal play. 

Should we talk about if A86 drops the ball a couple of steps into the carry? 

[jgf6]

dch, are you from AZ by chance? I agree with you on everything except c & d, not that I know that your not right. Read 7.5.4 Sit. I on pg. 60 of the case book, (b) and ruling (b). (b) completed pass as forward progress was stopped. The ball is dead at the yard line where the forward progress of the receiver was stopped.
It doesn't mention anything about the play continuing because, we would have blown the whistle for forward progress, due to carrying, in your c. In d, his forward progress has already been stopped in the field of play. His progress will be marked where the foremost point of the ball is at the time of the carrying, which should be before he crosses the sideline.
As far as dropping the ball after a couple of steps into the carry. Here is where judgement comes into play. I would say no in a couple of steps but that's just me. I would think to terms of yards, 3-4, 1-2, who knows. Is he being carried, does the receiver have possession, if yes, we have forward progress stopped.
Don't know if I'm right but that's the way I read it.

Now I'm up to four cents. haha

[Ralph Damren]

I vote with dch.